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Thanks for tuning in for the unSeminary podcast. We’re talking with Kerri-Ann Hayes today. In addition to being a senior consultant at Ministry Architects, Kerri-Ann has worked in children’s and family ministry for over 20 years and has a heart for making churches more inclusive for families with special needs.

At our churches we want to create a place where families have a place at the table. Increasingly this looks like supporting children and youth affected by special needs or trauma. Tune in as Kerri-Ann shares practical advice on fostering a welcoming environment at your church.

• How much focus do you give special needs? // The CDC reports that 1 in 6 children ages 3-17 have a diagnosed disability, 1 in 36 are diagnosed with autism, and 6.1 million have ADHD. Looking at these numbers, if these people are not represented in our churches, the question we need to ask is why?
• Initiate communication. // Parents may not share the special need when first attending or registering their child at church. It’s up to churches to provide a place where parents not only can identify information such as a child’s allergies, but also note needing additional support for their participation in kids ministry. During a child’s registration, include an area about special needs they may have.
• Start with the one. // Rather than feeling overwhelmed by the need to create an entire special needs ministry from the outset, start with the one. Who is the one child you have in mind who you can help? How do you create a plan for this child to participate in your church? Create a volunteer position in the children’s ministry that will be this child’s “buddy”. Their entire role is about becoming an expert on what that child will need to successfully participate in church. By creating a supportive environment for one child, churches can gradually expand their efforts to include more families.
• Seek advice. // Church leaders do not need to be experts in special needs to make a difference. Seek out local experts, such as occupational therapists or speech therapists, who can provide guidance and support on what could be improved in your children’s ministry. What are the physical barriers? Is the size or lighting of the room holding the ministry back?
• Simple changes. // Signage throughout a church can help visitors navigate the space with ease. Clear signage is particularly important for families or youth affected by special needs, who may already face challenges in social situations. In addition, provide clear directions and what-to-expect in your different environments. This guidance will help the neuro-divergent teenager to feel more independent and comfortable in the church and student ministry.
• Sensory rooms. // The sensory room Kerri-Ann’s church created was strategically placed in a back section of the children’s ministry. Placement of sensory rooms are important, both to accommodate situations where children might try to run away, and also to provide a quiet space away from noise and activity. Sensory items and dimmable lighting in the room are also key.
• The Accessible Church. // Kerri-Ann’s book, The Accessible Church: Making the Church a Welcoming Place for Children with Special Needs and from Traumatic Backgrounds, is a great resource for churches that are thinking about these issues. Kerri-Ann provides practical tips and tools that will help your church be more welcoming for families with special needs as well as families fostering or adopting children. In addition you can follow the stories of several children who have found their place within the church through a team that learned to serve them well.
• Focus on teenagers too. // As churches learn how to serve vulnerable and neurodivergent children, doors will open for them to serve teenagers as well. Rather than buddies, provide a hang-out sensory room for teens with appropriate lighting and cooperative versus competitive activities. Rethink your youth and worship spaces and how you can create awareness in your volunteers that these students are coming to the ministry.

You can reach Kerri-Ann to talk more about working with families with special needs by emailing her. Find her book The Accessible Church: Making the Church a Welcoming Place for Children with Special Needs and from Traumatic Backgrounds on Amazon.

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Episode Transcript

Rich Birch — Hey, friends welcome to the unSeminary podcast. So glad that you’ve decided to tune in. Really excited to have Kerri-Ann Hayes with us today. She has been in children’s and family ministry leader in central Florida since the late 90’s. She’s led children’s ministry in both a single and multi-site church context. During her years serving family Kerri-Ann has developed a passion for and really an expertise, particularly for those struggling to find their place in a church due to the special needs of their children. She loves supporting and equipping churches to be accessible to families with special needs or from therautic ah therapeutic background. So super excited to have Kerri-Ann with us. She also serves as a senior consultant with an organization called Ministry Architects. Kerri-Ann, so glad that you’re here today. Thanks for being on the show.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Thanks so much for having me, Rich. I’m so excited to be here.

Rich Birch — Oh this is going to be great. I’m really looking forward to kind of diving in. I think this is incredibly important topic. But kind of fill out the picture there a little bit tell us a bit of the Kerri-Ann story. tell us a little bit more about your background to kind of fill in the picture for us.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Sure. I live in beautiful Claremont, Florida and I love that ah you mentioned I’ve been in ministry to children and families since the 1990s. I always say for over 20 years because that’s what you say when you don’t want to give the exact years you’ve done something.

Rich Birch — Right. Yes, yeah yeah, yeah.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — But I I did over that time really develop a specific passion, which is to serve families who struggle to be a part of our churches. Beyond being a ah, children’s and family Ministry Leader, I am also a consultant. I’m a lead consultant with Ministry Architects which allows me to now work with churches all over the country.

Rich Birch — Love it. So Good. So glad to have you on. I think this is a critically important area around, you know, our church is becoming more accessible. And I had a friend recently tell me that, and I don’t know if this is true but they said it sounded true, it resonated true, that 1 in 5 kids in the country have what could be deemed as a special need. Um, but only only 15% of churches in the country actually do anything around this. 85% of churches don’t do anything around special needs. And to me that’s just tragic. Like we want to create a place where where families have a place at the table. But what is why don’t we start with kind of talking through the problem. Like what, you know, this is a huge issue for all of us. Why should we even be thinking about this as an issue for us in our churches?

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Well I think it comes down to ministry math. If we do understand the statistics, and you know the CDC says that 1 in 6, which is 17% of our children ages 3 to 17 have a diagnosed disability.

Rich Birch — Wow. Wow.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Then 1 in 36 are diagnosed with autism and that’s a brand new. That’s a fairly new statistic.

Rich Birch — Wow, wow. One in 36. Yeah.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — And 6.1 million have ADHD.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — So if we look at those numbers and then we look at the number of people who are participating in our churches, if these people are not represented in our churches, there’s another question we need to ask, which is why? Why are they not in our churches?

Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah, what’s happening there? Yeah. Yeah, it seems like you know if if ah, you know if a family showed up with a child in a wheelchair and we didn’t have a ramp. We would notice that. We would be like, oh my goodness. And what I know of the church leaders that are listening in is that tomorrow we would figure out how to get a ramp in. We’d be like okay we got We got to figure this one out…

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Definitely.

Rich Birch — …because people are loving and caring. But it’s not the same with you know when you talk about autism, ADHD, you know, even like severe anxiety, those sorts of things. Help us understand why you know why that is. Why why is this the kind of thing that is has been difficult or could be difficult for churches to try to think about how do we create space for kids or families that are, you know, that are struggling with these kinds of issues?

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Well some families may not share that when they initially register their child to come into children’s ministry, or their teenager. And it can be because we might not be asking the right questions.

Rich Birch — Right.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — We may have a space when we’re registering them that asks them, do you have a medical need? Do you have allergies? But just adding, “Will your child or student need additional support to participate in our ministry?” might get parents thinking in the direction of, okay, now I need to share if there’s autism, ADHD. Is there something else that can be put in place so that their child can be successful in the ministry? Because when parents don’t share this, we usually find out when it plays out in a behavior in in our ministry context.

Rich Birch — Yeah, I can see that for sure. If we don’t it’s like if we don’t create the space, they don’t communicate and then there’s like a bit of a vicious cycle there. Well you work with churches all across the country and help them in so many different ways. I’m sure, let’s assume, I’m I’m sure there’s leaders that are listening in today who are like, man, we want to create space where I don’t feel like we’re doing enough on this front. What would be some of those first steps that you would in encourage a church to think about. Like they maybe be understand in a broad sense that, hey we should be doing more, but they they haven’t you know they don’t they haven’t set anything up. They haven’t done… What would be some of those first steps that we should be thinking about.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — So my favorite thing it seems to be that every time I’m working with a church…

Rich Birch — Love it.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — …the first thing that they have to say to me is we’ve got this one child. We’ve got this one.

Rich Birch — Yes, yes, yes.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — There’s this one. And as they start to tell me about the one I’m thinking, I’ve seen that one before. So I think that the first thing to keep in mind is that we start with the one. We don’t necessarily need to create this entire ministry within the church. We need to start with the one. How do we create a plan for this child to participate in our church.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — And and that was our story. We started with the one who turned our Sunday morning, my very well crafted message and worship and ah volunteers in place, and the one child came in and turned things upside down, but also changed the face of our church for for the better because we became passionate…

Rich Birch — Yeah, tell me more about that. I’d love to hear that story. Tell us tell us more about that.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Yeah. So well this little guy who came in, he was in first grade and didn’t even have a diagnosis yet.

Rich Birch — Okay.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — But because of his behavior that played out in our children’s ministry environment that started a conversation with mom and dad which helped me to find out that they were in the process of trying to find out what was going on with him. And the church was able to walk with the family through a diagnosis, finding out that he had ADHD and autism, and then we needed to create a plan that was going to help him to be able to be a part of our church. Because it’s just again, it’s ministry math. If we could figure out a way for this little guy to be successful and participate in children’s ministry, then mom and dad were going to be able to be a part of our church as well.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — So we started with the one. We created a position in our children’s ministry, which we called a sidekick, who came alongside this little guy and they didn’t have to be an expert on anything besides him.

Rich Birch — Oh that’s good.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — They needed to become an expert on what did he need to be a part of our church. And it grew from there.

Rich Birch — I love that. You know, I this I think this area can be a little bit intimidating for for church leaders. And I think I can imagine um how you know this area could be the kind of thing where we like feel like, gosh, I’ve got to start so many things. I’s like we need you know it’s like we need a bunch of special super-specialized volunteers. We need people with all kinds of background in this. I’m like I’m not I don’t have those people here. We don’t have the space. Talk us through those kinds of concerns.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — The first thing I want to say is I’m not that person.

Rich Birch — Right. Okay. Love it.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Like I came into children’s ministry with a hospitality management background…

Rich Birch — Okay, yeah. Love it.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — …when the Lord called me into it. And now I’ve been in it for well over twenty years. So when I started you know this passion started burning inside of not just me, but the people serving in our ministry to be able to open the doors to other families, we didn’t have the experts. So I did go looking for the experts. I looked in my local area. Like who out there could come in and even assess my ministry? What can we do better? Ah, what do I need to look at? Are there physical barriers for our children? Because if a child has autism or sensory processing disorder, just the lighting in the room, or the size of the room and the amount of children that we’re packing into it, bringing in somebody who helped me have fresh eyes to the ministry was very helpful. But an interesting thing happened: the more that our volunteers and families started talking about people with disabilities and special needs, I felt like experts came out of the woodwork in my church.

Rich Birch — Oh that’s cool. Yeah. Love that.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — And so so many people that were um, occupational therapists physical, physical therapists and speech therapists started coming forward and saying I hear you have a need. How can I help?

Rich Birch — Love that.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — So I I think what has helped me most when I’m talking with other churches is the fact that I’m not an expert.

Rich Birch — Right.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — I I didn’t study this.

Rich Birch — Yes.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — I learned from the children. I’ve learned from the families and from the people who have come alongside our ministry.

Rich Birch — Is there, you know when you talk about low hanging fruit, is there particularly say in the in kids ministry specifically, is there like changes that most or like, you know, you walk into a church and you’re like, here’s change that you see all the time. You’re like, man, if we just did this, it would at so many churches across the country we it would make us more inclusive as an entire movement. Um, what would be a, you know, couple of those things that kind of come to mind, that low hanging fruit?

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Okay, so I’m not going to direct this just at children’s ministry.

Rich Birch — Sure.

I’m going to say all areas of the church.

Rich Birch — Yep, for sure.

Signage, signage, signage.

Rich Birch — Oh okay, good. Tell us about that.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — So so um, I’m share I visited a church recently and I was I was speaking there and I wanted to find the restroom before before the message began. And I stepped out into the lobby and I went walking through this cavernous church and could not find it. Okay, no one wants to have to go and ask.

Rich Birch — Yes.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Let’s let’s think about the teenager who comes into Youth Ministry who has autism, who already struggles building relationship. They don’t want to come in and have to ask questions to get their needs met. They want to come in and they want to feel independent. The same thing goes for do we post or share what to expect in our service.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — So some churches might share in a bulletin or something like that. But when we’re talking about a youth coming into Youth Ministry and they’re going to participate ah in your Wednesday night, maybe. Do they know when they walk in the door that this is a time of fellowship, that we’re moving into a time of worship, that there will be message, and small group, and that we’re eventually going to send them home.

Rich Birch — Right. Love it.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Those clear expectations help people feel independent, but also move through transitions because they can anticipate them.

Rich Birch — They know where things are going. Man, that’s just great practice in general for for all humans, which is good signage. I’ve said in other contexts you know next time you’re in an airport, you know, dear church leader, look around at the amount of signage that’s there. And that’s the benchmark. That’s like your baseline, starting point of the kind of the amount of signage you should have at your church. Because you think about an airport is designed for people who’ve never been there before to move them along and to try to not slow them down and that’s the same thing that you’re saying. Is like hey we want to make it super obvious.

Rich Birch — And I love that what to expect. Again, that’s just a good practice in general. But if we went out of our way to make that, I can see that, particularly if you know if if there’s parents or kids that are coming, you know, to be able to talk through and know, hey, this is what’s coming next. That you know, that makes that makes total sense.

Rich Birch — When you think about kind of where, so those would be some kind of low hanging fruits, when you think about um, where this is headed, and you’re like down the road you’re thinking about, Okay, we’ve we’ve gone beyond caring for the one. I love that idea of being like an expert in the one. And we’re thinking, man, we might want to add like a ministry. We might want to actually build some infrastructure there. Where is that headed? Is that headed towards like um, like an inclusion model where we’re trying to have, or what’s your best approach – inclusion where we’re having kids or families or young people or adults included, or is it like we’re going to have a whole separate thing, um where we do kind of ah a separate service a separate experience? What is the best practice from your perspective as the person who’s not an expert but really is, you know?

Kerri-Ann Hayes — I’m not an expert in that is not my education.

Rich Birch — I get that. Yeah, I understand what you mean.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — It has been my on the ground learning, which honestly I think might be the best way to learn is from from the kids, from the families.

Rich Birch — Love it.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — So…And I forgot your questions.

Rich Birch — Oh no, that’s fine. I was saying like, so yeah, let’s say we’ve taken a couple steps, and we’re caring for the one, and then we’re thinking down the road is are we really heading towards inclusion, or like an exclusive ministry.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Yes, so no. I I prefer inclusion, inclusion all all the way. But in saying that there are also people who will be a part of our church that the accommodation that they will need will be something separate.

Rich Birch — Right.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — So in in my experience we started with that one. We created a ministry within a ministry. So our church never had a disability ministry. They never had a special needs ministry. We had a way to include families who had special needs or disabilities. That started in the children’s ministry. So just by creating a position that someone could fill, which for us was a sidekick – some churches call them pals or buddies. But creating that position that people can be a part of – got to have a job description, have to have an invitation into being part of this. That ministry within our ministry grew and grew on on its own. So that’s where we started.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — In our original church building we did not have space to have a separate room if if a child needed that type of accommodation. And we had to take an approach of that we would never say no but we might say not yet, or not now can we take that child in without having a family member present.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — When we moved into a larger church building, we were able to strategically build a room that was for these children. That allowed us to serve children across a spectrum of needs.

Rich Birch — Yeah, I’ve found a similar thing as our church years ago 10 while more than ten plus years ago now is we added ah ah you know more and more kind of accommodations for kids with special needs. It’s word spreads, right, in a good way, in a beautiful way where families, these families are very networked and um, which is a wonderful thing. That’s what you’re yeah, that’s what you’re hoping for. We want to serve more families. And so, you know, over time, you know, we um, you know, we found that we had to add more infrastructure, more people, which I loved as a leader an executive leader in our church. It’s it’s a it’s a really fulfilling area to serve in. It’s it’s um, you know, it can be challenging volunteer service but it’s, and there’s kids that you know are to be able to create this kind of experience is just amazing for ah the families and they’re so thankful, and so you know appreciative of it.

Rich Birch — When you say that separate space, what what is what what did we typically see that, you know, this would be like a sensory room? You know, a place where they can have a bit of a, you know, a place to kind of distance themselves a little bit? Talk us through what that looks like.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Yep.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Yes, so a sensory room. And what we did when when our new building was being built was strategically placed our sensory room in the farthest area back in the children’s ministry.

Rich Birch — Okay, yeah.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — And are are thinking in this was we had a few children that we were not able to accommodate. And we wanted to move to a place that we could, but they were elopement risks meaning they were going to run away at any chance they were given. And we wanted to put as many doorways between them and the parking lot as possible.

Rich Birch — Nice. Okay, yes, yes. That makes sense.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — So just the placement of where this room was. But then also the room was outfitted with things that would be needed in a sensory place. So the ability to turn the lights down. It was was a quiet space just based on its location. And then there were sensory items that were in the room as well. We had very few children who use that room only, because our goal was we wanted them with our typical kids. But that room quickly became the room that everyone wanted to be a part of.

Rich Birch — Right. Yeah.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Because sometimes we all need a moment of quiet…

Rich Birch — Right.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — …to step away from all of the activity.

Rich Birch — Right. Well and I think there’s, particularly I think in in kids ministry, we can, on the programming side, our programming can lead towards you know, loud, energetic you know, ah over the top which can be fun is fun for some folks, but is not universally fun, right? It’s not. It’s not like not everybody loves that. And and particularly as the church grows you get a lot of kids, like you said earlier, in a room. Um, that can be just very overwhelming…

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Yeah.

Rich Birch — …you know, for some people for sure.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Yeah, and I’ll tell you, Rich, a funny story because we we were in this church that was really known for how they served families so we had tons of kids. We could have 150 children in one room. And that’s a lot of energy and could be a lot of sounds.

Rich Birch — Yes.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — And we had to train the volunteers who are up on the stage leading everything not to get the kids to cheer, to yell, or to clap.

Rich Birch — Sure. Yeah.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — We had to come up with other ways for them to show their enthusiasm. Otherwise that room was not a welcoming place for a lot of our kids, not even those who are neurodiverse, but for some of our typical kids as well.

Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, that’s a good, yeah I would agree. I think that is a that’s a shift for sure over the time I’ve been in ministry where it like that we didn’t even think of that when I was in student industry or kids ministry. But now it’s like a real thing. You’re thinking about it and you’re thinking about, Okay, how do we what’s the best way for us to do that. That’s, you know, that’s fantastic.

Rich Birch — I know for me one of my journeys in this area has been even just the terms we use. Um, you know, I remember years ago so, you know, I I talked about special needs kids and I had a loving friend ah you know and I thought I was using a term that was like appropriate and I and I was saying it in an endearing way. And they’re like, oh that’s actually not a great way to use that term.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Yeah.

Rich Birch — It’s it’s kids with special needs. And I was like, oh of course. Like that’s a way better way to talk about this. And it’s a fairly that’s a nuanced switch.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — It is.

Rich Birch — But how do how does someone who maybe isn’t in this space all the time even just keep up with the the language changes, and even the words you use there neuro-typical or, you know, neuro-divergent neuro-divergent. Um help us understand how how do we keep there?

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Yeah, oh so they call it disability etiquette. And it is not an easy thing to keep up with. I I remind ah, church leaders often that in Luke 14 Jesus referred to people with disabilities as the lame, crippled, and blind.

Rich Birch — Yes.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — We would never use those terms today.

Rich Birch — No. Yeah, yeah yeah.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — And then we used handicapped, and then it became disabled, then special needs came in. And now the the buzz word, which has been around for a long time, ah is neurodiverse. It’s just not been used in everyday language…

Rich Birch — Right.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — …by by families, by teenagers, by ministry leaders. So I think the important thing for us to is to not get too caught up…

Rich Birch — Right.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — …in the wording. The best thing that we can do is ask our people what are they comfortable with.

Rich Birch — Right.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — I I sat in a ah conference setting recently where somebody was sharing that as ministry leaders we get very caught up in all of the terms.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Ah, but families who have special needs don’t get caught up in those terms as much as we do.

Rich Birch — Sure.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — One thing to keep in mind is that an adult with a disability doesn’t like to be referred to as special needs. Yet families who have children with special needs often don’t like their child with autism to be referred to as disability. That’s where the nuance comes in that we need to know our people and and ask some questions.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — I had a young woman who served in our 2-year-old classroom who was deaf. And I actually asked her one day how did she like people to refer to her?

Rich Birch — Right.

Kerri-Ann Hayes —And I was thinking is it hearing impaired, is it deaf? And she was so quick to respond to me and say, I am deaf and nothing about me is impaired. And I went, Wow.

Rich Birch — Oh that’s good.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — But she wasn’t offended by my question.

Rich Birch — Right.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — And I think that’s an important thing for us to keep in mind that.

Rich Birch — Yeah, I I have found similarly around this issue, I think that’s a good that’s a good insight there around, I think sometimes maybe we we might get more um, worked up about this than than than the folks that we’re interacting with. And just having an open heart and open spirit to be like, hey, like and being willing to learn and be like, hey, we it’s okay, like I need to learn, is ah goes a long way as you interact with people and even if you stumble on the wrong term. Ah you know, not not there’s no need to get defensive, or no need to, you know, it’s okay, like it’s fine. You can just change and be different. It’s really okay, It’s not a big deal at all. That’s good.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Yeah, exactly.

Rich Birch — Well you’ve actually written a book about this that I want to make sure people check out. It’s called “The Accessible Church: Making the Church a Welcoming Place for Children with Special Needs and from Traumatic Backgrounds”.

Rich Birch — This is I think a fantastic resource for so many churches as they’re thinking about these issues, wrestling with what a great kind of resource for them to pick up. But talk to me about you know what led you to this a huge project to pull a book together, and you know think about these things in an area that is constantly changing. That’s a that’s a struggle. So yeah, what what brought you to the point of saying, yeah, this is this is what I should be doing next. This is a good step here.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — So as as our church began to grow, as more and more of these families started coming in, and the reason why the book refers to traumatic backgrounds as well is because we started off in special needs and then all of a sudden saw this huge influx of families from foster care and adoption. And we realized that some of the trauma that they had experienced caused them to struggle to be a part of our church. But, what we were doing for our families with special needs…

Rich Birch — Is similar. Yeah.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — …worked for them as well. So as as I was learning, as I was walking alongside these families I was journaling as well and through this process, I had a local church reach out to me and say, I have a family with autism. We’re sending them your way because we know that you can serve this family well. And immediately my thought was, but this family didn’t choose our church. They they chose your church…

Rich Birch — Yes, yes, yes.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — …and I want them in your church. So how do I take what we saw work in our church and package it in a way that I can hand it to you and say, you could do this too. It’s part of there not being a PhD behind my name to say, here ministry leaders, you you too can do this. And in the book we actually, ah you know, someone recently referred to it as case studies. And I said, I didn’t think about that. But there’s actual stories of kids that if you read their story you might say, oh, I’ve seen this child in in my church. And hopefully the tips and the tools that that are shared there will help that child in your church as well.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. Well I’d love for people to pick, ah you know, pick up there’s ah there’s so much in here. You know we’ve got The Beauty of an Accessibility Ministry, Rethinking Ministry, Redefining Effective Ministry, The Power of Story, Special Needs, Trauma in the Church – there’s so much here. Um, yeah, that’s interesting the connection on trauma. Literally just this week I was talking to a parent of who they identified their child as um, struggling with PTSD. And I was like, oh that’s interesting. Like and had a fascinating conversation with them around those and was struck by the same, you know, the same kind of stuff that they, you know, here’s a kid that’s been through some really tough stuff, but, you know, we were able to help them and have tried to create some space, you know, for them.

Rich Birch — When when you think about, um, you know, churches out there who’ve maybe taken the first couple steps or, you know, they’re thinking about this area, they’ve they’ve tried to serve a few people and now they’re starting to get more and more families, you know, come on board, is there a tipping point here where it goes from we’re just helping a few families to like, okay, I think I think we have declared we actually do have a ministry to, you know, kids with special needs. What is that, you know, what’s that line look like or is it fuzzy in different churches? What’s that look like?

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Well I would say it’s definitely fuzzy in different churches.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — But I will say for from my experience what happened in our church was we started out with the one. And we started to develop some practices in our ministry that we didn’t just focus on the one, we started saying, well what if we did this for the whole ministry? Like if this child can’t sit still through our teaching time, maybe we need to rethink our teaching time.

Rich Birch — Right.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Maybe we need to break it up into segments that are are easier for the child to consume and to be a part of. As we did that, more and more came in. So I would say when we reached a place of 5 to 10 was when we started saying, okay, this is an actual ministry within our ministry. And it really did grow from it really grew from there. And it was word of mouth.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — And we all know that when a pastor stands in the front of the church and says we need volunteers that that tends to fall on deaf ears. But I will say that as this story played out in our church, our pastor on one Sunday shared a story of a boy with autism who was going to be baptized.

Rich Birch — So sweet.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — He had brought his whole family to church and now he’s going to be baptized. And he shared this story. And I’m standing in another wing of the church. And 26 people come up to me to sign up to be part of the special needs ministry.

Rich Birch — Wow, Right. Wow. That’s amazing.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — You know, that’s the that’s the power of story. And I would say it’s it’s word of mouth that helped us to organically create this team that allowed us to welcome more and more children in.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. I love that. Now what happens, so as obviously as kids grow, they become adults. You know that one year after another. And then in a beautiful way I’ve seen churches as a whole start to say hey we need our entire ministries need to become more accessible. What are we seeing as now churches like yours in Florida, and others across the country who’ve been you know, really pioneering this, seeing this journey over decades, what impact is it is it having on the broader really beyond children’s ministry and looking at the entire you know entire ministry? What’s that look like?

Kerri-Ann Hayes — So it’s interesting because I think that children’s ministry got the largest focus in the beginning because, like I said, if the child can’t participate in the church then the entire family can’t participate in the church.

Rich Birch — Right, right.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — But what has happened is once some churches have figured out how to serve those families, those kids are now moving into youth ministry as well. What I’m seeing across the country right now is more of a focus on how do we welcome youth who are neuro-diverse, who are coming in with those invisible challenges. Ah putting a buddy with a thirteen year old in a middle school youth group is not attractive. So there’s a different way that we have to serve them so how how do we walk that out? I’m also seeing churches, I worked with a church in Indianapolis that put in a sensory room for their teenagers. It’s probably one of the coolest places. They called it…

Rich Birch — Oh that’s cool.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — The Chill Out Spot. And it was an inexpensive endeavor for them to take on. They hung Christmas lights from the ceiling. They put in ah puzzles and you know more cooperative activities versus competitive. There has been this theme in youth ministry, and I think we kind of get away from it then we come right back into it.

Rich Birch — Right.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — And it’s that big game competitive, but that doesn’t work for our kids…

Rich Birch — Right.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — …who have autism. But you give them something that’s collaborative and they soar.

Rich Birch — Right.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — And it’s great for them. So I think what we’re seeing is the rethinking of youth ministry now as well as how do we create spaces? How do we create awareness in our volunteers that these students are coming in?

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Here’s the interesting thing. Our teenagers know the term neurodiverse.

Rich Birch — Yeah, hundred percent.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — I have had I’ve had teenagers introduce themselves to me as, I am neuro-divergent. They’re okay with this.

Rich Birch — Right.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — We need to make sure that our volunteers who are serving them know the best practices for getting to know them. Ah, who said it, was it Ted Lasso or was it Walt Whitman, nobody knows. But we need to be curious, not judgmental.

Rich Birch — Right.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — So finding out by working with teenagers to ask what is going to be the best way for us to incorporate them into our worship environments.

Rich Birch — Um, yeah, that’s so good. I love that. And that’s true. You know about about young people and and, man, we want. Um I think that’s amazing. Like you think I think I think it’s great that we live in a world where. You know a young person can can introduce himself as neuro-divergent, and then we can be, roll with it and say, hey, let’s – great! We’re so glad you’re here. Come on in, you know, we’re happy for you to be a part of our ministry. And and um, yeah, that’s just beautiful. That’s a beautiful picture for sure. I hope the church can get this right as we continue to move forward in this area.

Rich Birch — Well, I would love people to pick up, if people want to get copies of your book, where… To me, what I was struck about this was this seems like the kind of book that we should read as a team. Like maybe if I’m if I’m you know on the next gen team at our church, like hey maybe 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 of us we should all buy this and and read through it together. That really struck me as a way to kind of use this. But where where do we want to send people to pick up copies of the book?

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Yeah, the book is available on Amazon.

Rich Birch — Nice. That’s where people get books these days, apparently.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — That is where they get them.

Rich Birch — That’s great. Well this has been fantastic. As we wrap up today’s episode, anything else you’d like to share?

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Yeah I just I want to encourage churches and church leaders to not feel like they have to do everything.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — I work with churches that say, you know we do respite events and we do it really well and we’re working to include families on Sundays. There are some churches that do big events like Night to Shine and that’s really they there that’s where their position when it comes to disability. I think that every church can do something.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — But I will so and I and I want to end with this. I shared that 1 in 36 children has autism. I worked with a church recently with 100 children and fifteen of them have autism. We as the church need to ask the question why? Why is there a larger ah population of children and teens in our churches? I think, as I’m researching, I think the answer is because they need community and they want to find it in our church.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. Well this has been a fantastic conversation. I really appreciate you being here today Kerri-Ann. If people want to get in touch with you reach out, maybe they’re you know wrestling through these questions. They’d love to get, I know you’ll you’ll definitely help them, even with some one-on-one support. What’s the best way for for them to reach out to you?

Kerri-Ann Hayes — So the best way would probably be by email and now I can give it to you now.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — It’s super long but it’s ah ah K-E-R-R-I [email protected].

Rich Birch — Love it.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — I’m also on Instagram and Facebook.

Rich Birch — Love it. So good. And that’s Hayes with an “e” so H-A-Y-E-S.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Y-E-S, yes.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s great. Kerri-Ann, I really appreciate you being here today. Thank you so much for what you’re doing and for, you know, just pointing us to I think a better future in so many of our churches. So thanks for being here today.

Kerri-Ann Hayes — Thanks, Rich! Thanks for the opportunity to talk about something that I think is so important to our churches today.