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Welcome back to the unSeminary podcast. Today, we’re talking with Quovadis Marshall (Pastor Q), Lead Pastor at Hope City Church in Waterloo, Iowa. Caught up in a life of gangs and violence, he became incarcerated at nineteen years old. However, Pastor Q experienced a life-transforming encounter with Christ through the Prison Fellowship Academy Program. Now he leads a thriving, outreach-focused church that’s deeply embedded in the life of its local community.

Is your church truly aware of your city’s needs? Are you engaging in a way that brings hope to overlooked or hurting parts of your community? Tune in as Pastor Q explores how churches can build bridges to their local neighborhoods and become known for joy, healing, and transformation.

• Find your city’s needs. // Every community has a story beyond its polished exterior. Start by asking questions: What are people struggling with? What are students and teachers experiencing in the school system? Where is there pain? Look for the deeper needs that may not be visible on the surface.
• Crack the outreach code. // Every city has a unique “code” for outreach, and every church has a core strength or competency. The key is aligning those two things—cracking your city’s code and contributing your church’s unique gifts. That’s where you’ll see the biggest spiritual return for Christ.
• Listen in the local community. // Pastor Q encourages leaders to get out and talk to people at the “watering holes” of the city—those central hubs where families, students, and residents gather and you can get a pulse on the community’s needs. Reach out to schools, civic leaders and nonprofits in the area. Ask residents what their pain points and aspirations are. Listening with empathy is the first step in meaningful outreach.
• Create partnerships. // Rather than creating new ministries from scratch, find local nonprofits already meeting needs and partner with them. Cultivate rhythms of celebration within your church in order to build relationships with people in the community, hear their stories, and encourage one another.
• Be the church known for joy. // Strive to be the kind of church people associate with joy—much like how people were drawn to Jesus. At Hope City Church they intentionally work to build a life-giving culture through three rhythms: internal celebrations (big days like Christmas and Easter), external celebrations (such as fall festivals), and external communications (stories of life change).
• Angel Tree: A practical next step. // Through Prison Fellowship’s Angel Tree, Hope City began serving children of incarcerated parents. For Pastor Q, this was personal—his daughter received Angel Tree gifts while he was in prison. The church now delivers gifts, hosts Christmas parties for Angel Tree recipients, and uses the opportunity to build long-term relationships with affected families.
• Planting a campus in prison. // Hope City didn’t stop with Angel Tree gifts. In partnership with Prison Fellowship Academy, they now run a full prison campus where 100 incarcerated men worship, serve, and are discipled every week. Thirty men have been baptized. It’s not just a broadcast—it’s church. Volunteers serve weekly, and the church views this ministry as a full extension of their body, not merely a project.

Learn more about Hope City Church at www.myhopecity.net and discover how you can get involved with Prison Fellowship’s Angel Tree program at www.prisonfellowship.org/about/angel-tree/.

EXTRA CREDIT // Inbox to Impact – Outreach Email Swipe File for Churches

In this episode, Pastor Quovadis Marshall shares how listening well unlocked transformational outreach at Hope City Church. Want to do the same in your city?

We’ve created a helpful resource to help you take action: Inbox to Impact is a swipe file of copy-and-paste emails your church can send to civic leaders, school officials, nonprofit directors, and more — all designed to open doors for listening and relationship-building.

Get access to the resource if you’re an unSeminary Extra Credit member.

Not a member yet? Join now and get instant access to this and other practical tools for church leaders.

Thank You for Tuning In!

There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally!

Episode Transcript

Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. Really looking forward to today’s conversation. You’re going to want to lean in. This is going to be a conversation that’s going to impact all of us. I really think it’s we’re talking through an issue that all of our churches should be thinking about and wrestling with. And we’ve got a real expert on today, someone who ah is going to help you think differently and hopefully take some different steps today out of this conversation.

Rich Birch — Excited to have Quovadis Marshall with us. He was caught up in a life of gangs, violence, and robbery until at 19 years old, he was sentenced to 10 years in prison. While incarcerated, he became involved with Prison Fellowship’s Academy program, where a relationship with Christ transformed his life and gave him tangible skills to succeed in life beyond prison.

Rich Birch — Now, he goes by Pastor Q. At In 2015, he planted Hope City Church, a prevailing church, that you should be following in Waterloo, Iowa. He also works with Prison Fellowship today to advocate for legislation that changes the lives of those behind lie law are behind bars and their families. Pastor Q, welcome to the show. So glad you’re here.

Quovadis Marshall — Oh man, it’s a great joy, kind of kind of a dream come true. Listen faithfully to unSeminary, read your books. Just man, love being here. Thanks for having me, Rich.

Rich Birch — Well that that well, that’s super kind of you to say it. That’s humbling that that you would you’d say that. We were joking earlier, you and my mom, I always wondered who’s the other listener. So, you know, ah that’s a great thing.

Quovadis Marshall — It’s me, it’s me, bro.

Rich Birch — Really, that’s super kind to you to say. Well, you know, your your life story transformation from, you know, incarceration to pastoral leadership to accelerated influence to just making all kinds of difference is remarkable. Unpack that for us. Maybe talk us through how your life experience ultimately shaped what has become Hope City Church?

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah, Rich, I mean, we you know we know the miracle worker. He always takes more than, well, he takes the little that we have of our lives, and he does a lot with it when we put it in his hands. And that’s true for all of us. We’ve all got a origin story, you know, you’ve heard the adage, every, every, every saint’s got a past and every sinner’s got a future, right? And so that’s true for all of us. Jesus got the bad end of the deal when he got all of us. Like yeah we we got the upgrade, you know. He’s the cute one in the relationship, not us, you know?

Quovadis Marshall — And so, yeah, man, I am born and raised here in ah Iowa, and in a good old Midwest, a single parent home, kind of run the gamut of, you know, poverty, grown up around crime, all those kinds of things. My life changed at 17, was in a crisis, knew I needed God. Knew… Let me say it a different way. Knew I needed something different. I didn’t know that I need God.

Quovadis Marshall — And and and that’s true. Every Sunday morning, people show up to our churches not looking for Jesus.

Rich Birch — That’s so true.

Quovadis Marshall — They come looking for hope and healing and change and transformation. And we know they need Jesus. So at 17, in my living room, cried out. Guy showed up the next day at my door. Door-to-door, old school door-to-door evangelism, that old evangelism explosion flow. And ah…

Rich Birch — Oh, hey, me too.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah, yeah, man. Come on, bro. Come on, bro.

Rich Birch — I got two questions for you. You know, knock, knock, knock.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Well, you know what? That that shaped my outlook and approach to ministry.

Rich Birch — Me too, for sure. Yeah.

Quovadis Marshall — You know, I’ve got a philosophy. Don’t know if it’s true, but either you get saved in the church or outside the church. And that shapes the way that you view evangelism and the role of the local church. And I find a lot of folks who get saved outside the church naturally have a bent toward ministry outside the church because that was their experience.

Rich Birch — Oh yeah, that’s true.

Quovadis Marshall — Whereas those who got saved in a church setting, they see that as the birthplace of their new beginning.

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — And so really, Rich, met the Lord. I knew four things that day. I was 17 years old. It was 1997. Number one, I knew God was real. Number two, I knew my sins were forgiven. I don’t know how I knew it, but I knew what I would do for the rest of my life. That’s number three. And I knew exactly where I would do it.

Quovadis Marshall — And, um you know, I like to say that it went from glory to glory, but, you know, I spent a little time building my testimony, in a as they say. And so, you know, you know salvation happens in a moment. Transformation takes a lifetime.

Rich Birch — Amen.

Quovadis Marshall — And about 18 months after following Jesus, I committed a crime. I robbed a store and I did it a guilty. Worst day of my life. Praise God ah that he’s a comma God, you know, he’s a but God, you know.

Rich Birch — Yes, yes.

Quovadis Marshall — And so ah while in prison, got connected with PF, but knew that I would spend my life doing what had been done to me, right? That God sees, he knows, he hears, he wants to deliver, and there are people who are crying out. And that’s why our churches exist in response to someone’s cry. God sends someone to answer that cry. And Prison Fellowship was instrumental in that change and transformation.

Rich Birch — Very cool. Well, I want to dig in today around the difference that Hope City is making in your community. And, um you know, you you as a church have really positioned yourself to try to meet the needs of the community, address, you know, real issues. When you began, what were the pressing needs there in Waterloo that you aim to address through the church’s outreach that you kind of said like, hey, here’s something we’ve got to lean in on?

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah, every every community, every city has a, there is a life happening outside the life of what seems to be good about our community. So your downtown could be thriving and booming or whatever, um you know, whatever thing it is, if it’s a college ah town, if it’s whatever it is, there’s always an underbelly, so to speak. And that’s where the need is. That’s where the ah physical, um more expressive need is, because we’ve all got needs, right?

Quovadis Marshall — And so what we did, um honestly, was we we tried to crack our our city’s code, our outreach code is what we call it. It was the outreach code of the city. Where are the felt needs? And we started with our school system, actually. We just know, I mean, you know, Gen Z, millennials, you know, now coming up Gen Alpha, um there’s obviously a pressing need for mentorship, for relationship. Teachers retired. This is 2015.

Quovadis Marshall — I’ll never forget at one of our social gatherings before we launched the church, we got done with the social gathering and we could hear sirens and we got the report that a little girl in our community had just been shot.

Rich Birch — Oh, man. Oh, my goodness.

Quovadis Marshall — And that was a marking moment. It made sense.

Rich Birch — Yes.

Quovadis Marshall — That was a key trigger in that core team, at least. You know, only about 75% of them, you know, 75% of them will kind of seventy five percent of them will will kind of off load within the first three years, but that initial group, it got in our DNA that there’s a need, we get to be the answer to the problem.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Quovadis Marshall — And and so we started with our schools and then we started looking around and asking ourselves, by asking the people, not guessing, we started asking the people…

Rich Birch — Yes. Yeah, yeah, that’s good.

Quovadis Marshall — …um really, what are the pressing needs? What are the things you’re struggling with? You know, you look at data, you look at trends, Barna, ah who’s who’s great, you know they had just come up with a survey about our city being one of the least 100 biblically minded cities in the nation.

Rich Birch — Oh wow.

Quovadis Marshall — And so it it made a lot of sense to find the felt need. And that’s going to be different every city. Just the headline there is every city has got a missional code or an outreach code to be cracked. But then every church has a core competency where it can contribute to those needs.

Rich Birch — Oh, that’s good.

Quovadis Marshall — And it’s aligning those two things. That’s really where you see Christ get the most out of what it is he’s put within your your church context.

Rich Birch — Yeah, I love that. Let’s let’s double click on that. This idea of really trying to learn our communities. And I like the distinction you made. There’s like, there’s the how our cities present themselves. And then there’s this kind of what’s actually going on. And that’s very true. You know, you peel back the onion and you start to get a sense of that. Let let’s, you I like that you talked about, hey, we actually asked people. We actually got out and talked with folks.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah.

Rich Birch — Can you talk us through what that looked like? How did you, how did you actually engage with real people and understand rather than just like, oh, I think this is what the problems are. These are the things I think we should, it’s not even problems. This is how, is how we want to engage with our community.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah, I think you know ah step one is um is is look for people within proximity. And so you ask the people who are gathering in your local congregation, you know if you’ve already launched a church. First, we were planting the church, so it was a little bit different. But if you’ve you’re in an established church, start asking those people. Do focus groups.

Quovadis Marshall — Hey, what are your felt needs? What are the things that make most sense to you? um Where are you feeling the pain? What are your aspirations? What are your goals? And I would do that. And you want to know how to really meet the needs of your families. Don’t ask the children ministry workers; ask the families in the children’s ministry.

Rich Birch — Right, right.

Quovadis Marshall — So so one, I would start with people who have the closest proximity to. Number two, I would I would start for what we said is we wanted to go to the watering holes in our city. We would look for the watering holes.

Rich Birch — Oh, that’s good.

Quovadis Marshall — And in the jungle, the watering hole tells you everybody that’s in the jungle. You know, watering holes are are demilitarized zones unless you’re alligators. You know, they’re eating anything and everything, you know, that comes near them.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Quovadis Marshall — But you’ll see antelope and buffalo and everything. And so what are the watering holes? Well, um a couple of the watering holes are going to be the local school system, which was for us, it is our our missional strategy, ground zero. Whenever we go into a new city, it’s the first thing we do. We look to partner with the schools. And all we’re doing is trying to be good news to them. And so we’re asking them because they know the most.

Rich Birch — Yes.

Quovadis Marshall — They’re interacting with all the kids in that zip code…

Rich Birch — Every day. Yes.

Quovadis Marshall — …yeah, every single day. Hey, what are you finding are struggles for the kids? What are you finding um families need? What are you finding are pinch points? Is it mentoring? Is it is it food insufficiency? Is it support for the staff? You know, honestly, asking the mayor of your city if you can get access to your city officials. That’s another great watering hole because they’ve got a great pulse.

Quovadis Marshall — Number three would be nonprofit organizations and agencies that are already meeting felt needs. And so instead of duplicating services, can we partner with you in the services that you’re already that you’re already providing.

Quovadis Marshall — And then number four, one of the things we did is started building rhythms of celebration, which gathered the community. And in that context, we got to build relationships and hear stories of people and what they were going through. And then honestly, you know, Waterloo or not Waterloo, but for us, it’s Waterloo. It’s your police, fire departments and asking them what are the felt needs of the community.

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — And so again, every city is different. Some cities are battling immigration. Some cities are battling food insufficiency. Some cities are battling crime. In more affluent cities, they’re not battling external crime and food insufficiencies, but they’re battling loneliness. They’ve, they’ve, the thing, you know, it’s a lot of brokenness in the home because you, it it takes a lot to build a great business, right? It takes a lot. It’s a a lot of wear and tear on a family…

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — …to kind of excel through the corporate ladder.

Rich Birch — Sure.

Quovadis Marshall — And so those felt needs are going to be more relational and spiritual than they are going to be physical.

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — That’s been our experience because our downtown campus is in the heart of our city.

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — It’s, it’s, you know, it’s it’s where it’s it’s where the crime happens at and in poverty and all of that. Whereas our broadcast campus is in a more affluent community. And so um you learn the different needs of just those social you know, socioeconomic demographics. And so, yeah.

Quovadis Marshall — But I do think if you will listen, I find it interesting, Rich. Jesus spent 30 years walking among us before he ever started correcting us.

Rich Birch — Oh, wow. Yeah, that’s a great insight.

Quovadis Marshall — So he had a lot to say because he’s the Word…

Rich Birch — Right. Yes.

Quovadis Marshall — …but but right but the Bible says, let your speech be seasoned with salt so that it can help the hearer.

Rich Birch — Yes. Yes.

Quovadis Marshall — And and so learning to listen, people will talk if you ask them.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. I remember years ago we had, ah we were doing, you know, a similar heartbeat. As a church we wanted to serve our community. And what we had ah kind of charged our campus pastors to connect with the highest kind of official in, in their community that they could as possible. If you get to the mayor, great…

Quovadis Marshall — Yep.

Rich Birch — …but kind of whoever they could. And this one, I love this story. I had nothing to with it. I just heard it, which is fun.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah.

Rich Birch — But the, um the campus pastor, one of our campus pastors ended up getting to the mayor in, in town…

Quovadis Marshall — Wow.

Rich Birch — And, and, let’s just say that this mayor would have a reputation of not necessarily someone who would engage with church people. We’ll just say it that way.

Quovadis Marshall — Right, right.

Rich Birch — And but the mayor took the took the meeting and our campus pastor met with them. And and the way we phrased it was we were saying, hey, we’ve got X amount of dollars and X amount of volunteer time.

Quovadis Marshall — Yep.

Rich Birch — We want to just serve the community. And we want you to direct us. You tell us what that, how you’d want to do that.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah.

Rich Birch — And it was interesting that the the mayor, again, no right right reputation, leaned way back in their chair and said, you know, people come in here every day and are asking for things. They come in looking for stuff from me.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah. Yeah.

Rich Birch — And he’s like, I’m not really sure what to say…

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah.

Rich Birch — …because it’s, you know, normally ah people want to get something from us.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah.

Rich Birch — But the fact that you’re coming wanting to help me, I really want to measure this and think about this.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah.

Rich Birch — And then they ended up, you know, it ended up actually, you know, flourishing into this incredible relationship.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah.

Rich Birch — It’s amazing when you just listen to people, the difference it makes.

Quovadis Marshall — That’s right.

Rich Birch — One of the things you had said there was rhythm of celebration, actually celebrating with your community.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah.

Rich Birch — That caught my attention. What what does that look like?

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah.

Rich Birch — How does that, you know, I feel like so many times we’re inviting people to our stuff, but that sounds not like that. Let me tell you, tell us about that.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah. You know, there’s there’s um there’s two thoughts that you just reminded me. One of the things we did is, which is key, is we didn’t just ask the community what it needed, but we asked ourselves, what are we good at?

Rich Birch — Oh, that’s good.

Quovadis Marshall — like who’s in our church, right?

Rich Birch — Yes.

Quovadis Marshall — What what need are we um able to meet?

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — Which which really built the relationship with Prison Ministry, Prison Fellowship. And so I would love to talk a little bit more about that.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Quovadis Marshall — But um yeah, rhythms of celebration, I mean, it’s so interesting. You know, Jesus shows up on the scene and they say, this guy likes to party too much.

Rich Birch — That’s true. That’s true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

Quovadis Marshall — Right, right. This guy, he’s always throwing parties.

Rich Birch — And lots of churches don’t have that reputation.

Quovadis Marshall — They do not, they do not. It’s like everybody in the church sucked on the lemon before they came. You know what I mean?

Rich Birch — That’s so true. That’s so true.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah, yeah.

Rich Birch — Love it.

Quovadis Marshall — The psalmist says, I was glad when they said to me, let’s go to the house of the Lord. And…

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah. And I think we’ve lost some of our joy. And and I get it. Satan, you know, if I can, if I can go this direction, Satan wants to sap your joy because then he can he can sap your strength. Because the joy of the Lord is our strength.

Rich Birch — Oh, that’s good. So good.

Quovadis Marshall — And so churches that don’t have a high celebration culture at times, I’ve noticed, aren’t very strong. They can be very disciplined, but but discipline and strength are not the same thing. Discipline is is just…

Rich Birch — Dude, that’s good.

Quovadis Marshall — Right? It’s doing what I know to do, which becomes ah it can become autopilot almost.

Rich Birch — Right, right.

Quovadis Marshall — Whereas there’s ah there’s a real strength. Let’s let’s be the kind of church that when our city thinks of joy, when our city thinks of serving, when our when our city thinks of a life-giving culture, they think of us in the same way they would have thought of Jesus. Like they looked at the Pharisees and thought, no way. Looked at the disciples and thought, maybe. But the prostitutes looked at Jesus and said, that guy…

Rich Birch — Wow.

Quovadis Marshall — …I can go to him. Yeah.

Rich Birch — Dude. Yeah. Wow. That’s the reputation we want.

Quovadis Marshall — That’s the repetition we want.

Rich Birch — We want that reputation.

Quovadis Marshall — Absolutely.

Rich Birch — So so, what did that, what’s that actually look like? How have you, how have you tried to model that as a church in your community?

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah. Yeah, I think it’s, I’ll i’ll give three three ways we do that.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Quovadis Marshall — There’s three ways we do that. So one, there are some internal rhythms that we’ve created. I can talk to you about that, that we’ve done.

Quovadis Marshall — Number two, there are some external rhythms that we’ve created as in terms of things we do. And then number three there are some external communications that we intentionally kind of push out.

Quovadis Marshall — And so internally what we’ve created most churches live with the mindset of there’s three primary big days on a Sunday where we get to celebrate, or where attendance is going to be good and if we’re wise we’ll turn those into celebrations. They’re not going to remember what you said they’re going to remember how they felt. Right?

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s true.

Quovadis Marshall — And so I want them to walk away going. I really loved that. What I remember launch Sunday, realizing I had a moment of panic because I realized so I can’t make anyone come.

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — I’ve done the mailer, I’ve done the social media, but for them to get up and get here, I can’t control that. And so, you know, and so it was the Lord helping me kind of get me over the attendance stuff and all of that. But what I did discover is that I can’t make them come, but I can make them not want to leave.

Rich Birch — Oh, that’s good. That’s good.

Quovadis Marshall — And I can make them, can’t, you know. I can build within them a desire to go, this is over, but I can’t wait to go back. And so most churches think about that opportunity, Christmas, Easter, Mother’s Day.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Quovadis Marshall — And those are the kind of three big days.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Quovadis Marshall — What we’ve done is we’ve built out 16 big days outside…

Rich Birch — Wow.

Quovadis Marshall — …outside of Mother’s Day, Christmas and Easter. And I’ll tell you what they are. It’s Baptism Sunday, Baptism and Child Dedication Sunday, our fullest dedication. If you do infant baptism or something, that could be a day. Those are big days. Those are big days, right?

Rich Birch — Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love it.

Quovadis Marshall — Because we’ve trained our people, invite your family, bring them in.

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — And so when they come in, we you know give them that loving touch, you know give them special seating, address them specifically in the room. Thank you for being here. Those are 16 different times. So that’s 12 because we do baptisms once a month. And then the fifth Sunday of of the year, we bring all our kids on stage and they lead worship during the offering moment.

Rich Birch — Oh, that’s fun. That’s fun.

Quovadis Marshall — Now, you know, as you get bigger, you got to kind of manage how many kids you can bring on stage, right?

Rich Birch — Yes.

But but I’ll tell you what, man, you you put little Susie on stage, grandma, great grandma, auntie…

Rich Birch — Oh, that’s good.

Quovadis Marshall — …the auntie, that’s not really the auntie, but this mom’s, you know, cosmetologist is showing up.

Rich Birch — Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah

Quovadis Marshall — And so you get those 16 big days plus plus those three other big days…

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Quovadis Marshall — …and it invites the family into a celebration. That was the question, right?

Rich Birch — Oh, that’s so good.

Quovadis Marshall — What’s the celebratory thing? And then externally in your calendar, you look at what are some big days. And so for us, we lean into Father’s Day, a car show, barbecue. We do a Fall Fest, kind of our version of trunk or treat. And um you know then you got Christmas, another big day that the community… And actually my perspective is I think more people are likely to go to Christmas than they are Easter.

Rich Birch — Yes. Yeah.

Quovadis Marshall — Because Christmas, Christmas right? It’s everything’s Christmassy. And I think you talked about this a little while ago. And then Easter is like, it’s the resurrection is Easter bunnies.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Quovadis Marshall — So those are internal things. And then externally, what we try to do is intentionally communicate what’s going to be a benefit to them, not necessarily who we are.

Rich Birch — Right. OK, good.

Quovadis Marshall — So the the the communication, when it comes to celebrating, is um we, you know, ah an example would be real time. We just came out of Easter, but we didn’t we didn’t put our numbers up. Right.

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — We didn’t we didn’t say here’s the numbers from the church. I’m not opposed to that. But rather what I would what I would rather have us do is communicate a story of life change of somebody whose life has changed.

Rich Birch — Right. Right. That’s good.

Quovadis Marshall — Someone who looks like someone in our community…

Rich Birch — Yep.

Quovadis Marshall — …to kind of go, that could be me. Right. And so um creating rhythms, which really goes down to calendaring. How do we make an impact? And yeah.

Rich Birch — Love that. I love so much there. there’s a you know That was like a masterclass there. So much there about how do we create rhythms and using the calendars. That’s that’s so good.

Rich Birch — Let’s pivot and talk about PF. I love that you know you obviously were impacted, deeply impacted as…

Quovadis Marshall — Yes.

Rich Birch — …you know an individual by this ministry and then have continued to build this partnership with them. What does that look like for your your church? I love how you talk about, how your church talks about even your ministries into institutions where, you know, it’s like, Hey, we’re, you’re not a project. You’re not, there’s not, you know, you’re not just something we’re trying to do. You’re a part of our church. Unpack that. Talk us through, what does that look like for you? How have you been partnering with Prison Fellowship? What does that look like?

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah. Well, you know, there’s a little unique story in that, you know, I went to prison and and so while I was in prison, I went through the Prison Fellowship Academy. You know, the part of the story that really for us makes a lot of sense because it resonates so deeply is that not only was I in prison, but I left my daughter and her mother behind. And so PF in the local church came around them…

Rich Birch — Oh wow.

Quovadis Marshall — …and walked with them while I was in prison. Prison fellowship program called Angel Tree. And so every year my daughter got a Christmas present from her dad, but delivered through the local church. Now, the truth is is, I didn’t pay for the gift. The local church did. So the church…

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — But the church didn’t make itself the hero. The church made me the hero. And so they said, hey, your dad bought you this gift and he wrote you this note. And it helped strengthen that relationship with me and my daughter and her mother while I was in prison. And at the same time, it it provided an on-ramp for my daughter and her mother to be a part of this local church.

Rich Birch — Yeah, I love that.

Quovadis Marshall — And so when I was released, guess what church I went to?

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — I went to the church that cared for my family.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Quovadis Marshall — And so that’s actually where we started as a church family. We started doing Angel Tree.

Quovadis Marshall — Through no fault of their own, those children have been left without a parent, right? And the Bible says, pure and undefiled religion is this, to visit the widow and the orphan in their time of need and keep one unspotted from the world is what what what James says. One of my favorite verses is in Psalm 68. The writer says, the Lord sets the lonely, I think it’s 68.6 says, the Lord or or God sets the lonely in families. It causes the prisoner to sing.

Rich Birch — That’s so sweet. Yeah.

Quovadis Marshall — And so what’s the pathway towards freedom getting sent in the family? because he’s sets the lonely in families.

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — And it’s in that place you get free from the things that had you bound…

Rich Birch — Right. That’s good.

Quovadis Marshall — …which gives you the freedom to do what you were made to do, which is worship. And so we started out just saying, how can we set these kids in families? And so we started with Angel Tree. It felt safe, right? It felt safe for our church to go, you know, I don’t know about the parent, but I can start with the kid.

Rich Birch — Right. Right.

Quovadis Marshall — And, you know, then you celebrate those stories. And, you know, we do a Christmas party and the kids are picking up Christmas presents.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Quovadis Marshall — And, Some kids hadn’t heard from their dad in years. And you just you watch the joy and you watch the impact. And again, in the mind of that parent, the church has now become a safe place, not just a religious place.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Quovadis Marshall — What a place of celebration, a place of safety, right?

Rich Birch — Yeah, I love that.

Quovadis Marshall — We we have our students help deliver the gifts to the kids. And so these kids are meeting kids that are their age. And so they’re building some natural relationship and connection. And you invite them back to kids church. You invite them back to youth group. And by God’s grace, you know doors continue to open to be involved in the things that Prison Fellowship is doing to help the church fulfill its mission.

Quovadis Marshall — I’ll say one more thing. You know, Jesus shows up on the scene, Luke chapter four, and he’s quoting Isaiah 61. And I appreciate the spiritualizing of the text. I do. I really do. You know, we’re all free. We all, you know, set the prisoners free, set people blind. You know, I love the spiritual, all of that.

Rich Birch — Yes. Yeah.

Quovadis Marshall — But what I find interesting, Rich, is he says he’s come, you know, to proclaim liberty to the captive, right, in the opening of prison doors. And I appreciate that. Yes, I need freedom. Yes, open those prison doors in my heart, Jesus. But then Matthew, you know, Matthew 25, doubles down. Right?

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Quovadis Marshall — So his opening and closing sermons are the same.

Rich Birch — Interesting.

Quovadis Marshall — Hey, right? Matthew 25. Then I’ll say, you came to visit me in prison.

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — So he like doubles down on this literal reality.

Rich Birch — Yes. Yeah. It it seems to be more than just a metaphor. This is not this is not a metaphor.

Quovadis Marshall — Yes.

Rich Birch — There’s something about engaging with prisoners.

Quovadis Marshall — That’s right. Yeah. And and then, you know, because the foundation of his throne is is righteousness and justice. And so the salvific nature of Christ’s work was, I am guilty in the courtroom of God. I am a prisoner sold into sin. Therefore, who more could relate to a physical prisoner than ones who’ve been spiritual prisoners?

Rich Birch — Love that.

Quovadis Marshall — And then he puts an exclamation point on it. You ready?

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Quovadis Marshall — Who’s the first person to enter paradise with Christ?

Rich Birch — Yeah. The thief on the cross.

Quovadis Marshall — The thief on cross.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Quovadis Marshall — He goes, I’m serious about this.

Rich Birch — Right. Right.

Quovadis Marshall — I’ve come I’ve come for the prisoner.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Quovadis Marshall — And I do I do believe we’ll see, you know, the joke, not the joke, the cliché statement is, we in America, we took the Bibles out of school, so God put them in the prisons. And ah Frederick Douglass said… right, right?

Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah.

Quovadis Marshall — And So Frederick Douglass said, um it’s it’s it’s um it’s easier to train the child than it is to fix a man. And when you can’t train the child, the good news of the gospel is that he can fix the man. And so we’re able to do that. And so we launched the campus and yeah.

Rich Birch — Yeah. So, I well, first of all, we will we’ll definitely link to Angel Tree. I think this could be, I hope there’s people that are listening in today that would say, you know, that that could be a step we could take. We’ve got time now to even line that up for this Christmas.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah.

Rich Birch — That could be a real practical next step for churches that are, for leaders that are listening in.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah.

Rich Birch — But let’s talk about kind of the the campus the campus, your work in prisons. What does that look like? Kind of give us a flavor you know, of that.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah.

Rich Birch — I think Angel Tree is a great starting point.

Quovadis Marshall — It is.

Rich Birch — And and would be, like you say, it’s kind of a safe step for most churches.

Quovadis Marshall — Yep.

Rich Birch — They could, you know, every church that’s listening in could do that.

Quovadis Marshall — Yep.

Rich Birch — There could be too many churches signed up and they would still have opportunity.

Quovadis Marshall — Right?

Rich Birch — Prison Fellowship would fine would find kids for sure.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah.

Rich Birch — So, um but let’s talk about what does that look like for you…

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah.

Rich Birch — …kind of when you took beyond that step?

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah, yeah. On on that note, you know, kind of ah as a pivot, you know, there’s 1.6 million children and who have an incarcerated parent. Last year, PF serviced 270,000 kids. The thing that I try to tell pastors about Angel Tree is it’s the easiest way to grow your church. And here’s why. You’re going to get the address, phone number and location of people in your community who are waiting for you to show up.

Rich Birch — Right. Right.

Quovadis Marshall — Like if you can’t, I’m handing you a handful of families. If you If you can’t grow your church…

Rich Birch — Who have said we’d be willing to talk to these people. Yes.

Quovadis Marshall — Yes. If you can’t grow your church, you need to get into insurance with that number. You know what I’m saying? Like my brother, you need to pick a different profession.

Rich Birch — That’s great. I love it. Love it.

Quovadis Marshall — So, you know, so um ah so yeah, you were, you were asking about the campus.

Rich Birch — Yes.

Quovadis Marshall — And, and so for us, really, it was, it was, it was the, it made the most sense as a next step. Not all churches have a prison around them. But what we found was that there was a group of men in a prison about an hour away who had been tracking with us. And part of the the way they have been tracking with us is that some of the people who were in our church had committed crimes and went to prison. But also we, during COVID, didn’t double down online because Iowa is so rural that internet, like like I’m in a city of 100,000 and we just got fiber. You know I’m saying?

Rich Birch — Right. Okay.

Quovadis Marshall — And so like internet wasn’t the the winning strategy. Television was.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Quovadis Marshall — So we went to television.

Rich Birch — Yep. That makes sense. Yep.

Quovadis Marshall — And so a lot of guys started watching and then they started sending in letters is all they did was send it in letters. And, you know, the Bible says a person’s gift will make make make way for them and bring them before great men. That’s what it says in Proverbs. And and so we did the same thing as we did with the schools, with the mayor, we just said to the prison, how can we help?

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Quovadis Marshall — Are there any volunteer slots? And and so that door opened we started partnering with Prison Fellowship Academy that’s already in that prison. So they were really the gatekeeper for us to get into the prison. And kind of full circle now we’ve we’ve been in that prison about a year.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Quovadis Marshall — And about 100 men gather every Sunday morning.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Quovadis Marshall — We take the the teaching from Sunday, the worship and everything, put it on a thumb drive. We load it up. And they so they are they’re what they’re literally they’re worshiping on Sunday mornings. They’re serving on teams. They’re ushers. They’re greeters. Like they’re involved at a high level in the overall service.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s amazing. Yep.

Quovadis Marshall — And then many of them are getting baptized even, you know.

Rich Birch — Wow. Praise God.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah, they’re getting baptized. And I think about 30 guys have been baptized since we launched the campus. And so they’re a small group. I mean, everything we’re doing as a church outside the prison, we’re doing in the prison. And and so, because the truth of the matter is, is like ah Hebrews 13 says, remember those who are in prison. And if in for those in prison who are believers, if you could think of it this way, your arm or your leg, if you’re a part of the body is in prison. Right.

Rich Birch — Yep. Yep.

Quovadis Marshall — And 95 percent of those men and women in prison will be released.

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — And so the question isn’t, are they coming home? But but but who’s who’s coming home?

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Quovadis Marshall — Have they met Jesus? Have they found life-giving community?

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — And so by God’s grace, it’s a thriving community. We’re so grateful to be in those prisons and and a part of what’s happening there. We love those men. And in Prison Fellowship, honestly, they opened the door for us to to be able to do that.

Rich Birch — Yeah, love that. Well, I love that. And that, you know, could be a natural extension. You know, I know that the, I don’t know a lot about the prison system, but I don’t do know one thing I do know it’s designed for isolation, even where they put these things…

Quovadis Marshall — Yes.

Rich Birch — …they put them way far out in the middle of nowhere.

Quovadis Marshall — Yes.

Rich Birch — So it’s hard for people to get to them.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah.

Rich Birch — It’s hard for, you know, families to get there.

Quovadis Marshall — Right.

Rich Birch — And the fact that your church is, you know, making that effort to be there week in week out is incredible. I know that that would be life giving ah to folks that are, you know, that are there in that, in that prison. So that’s incredible. So thank you for, for doing that.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah, it is. And I think it’s mobilizing to our churches. I think we underestimate ah people’s desire to make a difference at times. I think there was a thought process coming in the nineties with churches where let’s not ask a lot from them. Let’s give them a lot of anonymity. Let’s, you know, let’s kind of let them kind of find the way. And that’s great. And I’m all for that. I don’t think you have to, I don’t think you have to choose between attractional or missional. There is the, there is the, the attractional model is the Nathaniel or Philip to Nathaniel, come and see. Right?

Rich Birch — Yep.

Quovadis Marshall — He says, hey, man, just come and see.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Quovadis Marshall — And I appreciate that. But Jesus said, go and tell.

Rich Birch — Amen, amen.

Quovadis Marshall — You know, and so and so i don’t think you have to choose between the two. And as I look at Jesus’s model for for ministry, it was high invitation. Anybody can come. But then it was high challenge. You know, you got to drink my flesh, you eat my blood. It’s like, what? And and my mentor says, he says, and this is going to be gender specific, but the idea is not gender specific, just the analogy. He said, call men to play a man’s game and men will show up.

Quovadis Marshall — And and I think when you call people to make a difference, you know, I tell our church, I said, hey i’m not trying to I’m not trying to make you safe. I’m trying to make you dangerous. Like, I want you to be a force for God’s kingdom. And not all people buy in, but those who do change the world.

Quovadis Marshall — And eventually that middle group, you know, those kind of, you know, you’ve always got the the early adopters, you’ve got the middle group and then you got those that are not coming. That middle group will start to follow as you celebrate what you’re doing and life change and all that.

Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s so good. That’s so great. Well, when you look to the future, kind of up over to the horizon, what aspirations? Where’s kind of the, what are the questions you’re asking? You’re thinking about the future at Hope City Church and its role in your community. What what would be some of those things you’re wondering about as you look to the future?

Quovadis Marshall — Bro, ah man, it’s been great. It’s been great. Yeah, we like to say we’re big plate people. And so I like ah I like my food falling off my plate. And so we just we’ve just got into our broadcast facility and we’ve kind of we’ve outgrown it.

Rich Birch — Nice.

Quovadis Marshall — So now we’re trying to figure out what to do next. And you know, so for sure, campus launches, you know, there’s a plan, there’s a strategy to launch campuses throughout throughout the state.

Rich Birch — Great.

Quovadis Marshall — There’s some favor there. Getting to more prisons, for sure, but also building that leadership pipeline. You need resources, leaders, and vision. And so those three things you’re always working on as a point leader. So, um yeah, man, the future’s bright. God is good. The the gospel must go forth. And he’s with us, man. So let’s let’s get after it, baby.

Rich Birch — Love it. Let’s get after it.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah.

Rich Birch — So good.

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah.

Rich Birch — Well, any final words just as we wrap up today’s episode?

Quovadis Marshall — Well, one, I want to just honor you and tell you thank you.

Rich Birch — Oh, thanks, man.

Quovadis Marshall — Honestly, you you didn’t know me up until 45 minutes ago, but but for years, Rich, I’ve listened to your podcast faithfully…

Rich Birch — Oh, that’s sweet. That’s sweet.

Quovadis Marshall — …to be stretched, to be to be challenged, to learn new insights, getting things from you and the people you have on that I couldn’t get anywhere else. So just honestly, sincerely, thank you for that.

Rich Birch — Thank you.

Quovadis Marshall — The other thing I say is that, man, I just encourage churches like, man, guys, we’ve got the good news of the gospel…

Rich Birch — Amen.

Quovadis Marshall — …and we have an opportunity to impact the world. And shameless plug, Prison Fellowship has been the easiest. All the other stuff I talked about, we had to build.

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — We had to put the structure behind. We, you know, have to develop the leaders for.

Rich Birch — Yes.

Quovadis Marshall — I don’t have to do that with Prison Fellowship.

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — It’s literally plug and play.

Rich Birch — Right.

Quovadis Marshall — And it’s been transformational in terms of lives being touched. It’s been transformational in mobilizing our church. And it’s been transformational in our reputation in the city as the good news people.

Rich Birch — Love it.

Quovadis Marshall — So ah get plugged in. Keep listening to Rich’s podcast. Buy Church Growth Flywheel, and like let’s get it.

Rich Birch — Yeah. Love it. Love it. Thanks so much, Pastor Q. Appreciate the, really appreciate the kind words. That’s so nice of you. Where do we want to send people online? We’ll link to Prison Fellowship, specifically to Angel Tree, just to make it super easy for people to take that step. But you should check out Prison Fellowship in general. Anywhere else we want to send them online to track with you or with the church?

Quovadis Marshall — Yeah, yeah, you can check out, ah you can follow me on socials, Quovadis Marshall, Q-U-O-V-A-D-I-S Marshall on Instagram. I’m I’m pretty active on there. Go to our website, myhopecity.net. Yeah, and you’ll find some links to some other stuff I get to do, coaching. And I wrote a book a little while ago.

Rich Birch — Love it.

Quovadis Marshall — And ah yeah, man, I love I love to connect with you guys.

Rich Birch — Love it. Thanks so much. Appreciate you being here today.

Quovadis Marshall — Thank you.