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If there’s one thing church leaders should be obsessed with, it’s the front door. In this special compilation episode, we’ve pulled together four conversations from leading churches and ministry organizations that are seeing success in helping first-time guests move from curious visitors to fully engaged disciples. The challenge facing churches today is different than it was even a few years ago. Guests are arriving with different motivations, different expectations, and different questions. Churches that continue using yesterday’s assimilation strategies may unintentionally lose people God is already drawing.
Don’t miss the four critical lessons every church should consider as they prepare for the fall ministry season. From changing guest motivations to intentional follow-up systems, discipleship pathways, and data-driven care, each conversation offers practical insights that can help churches better connect with the people walking through their doors.
People Are Coming to Church Looking for God
Greg Curtis shares a remarkable shift he’s seeing among first-time guests, particularly younger adults. Where people once came primarily looking for community, support, or practical life help, many are now arriving already searching for God. In some cases, they’ve already begun reading Scripture, exploring faith, or experiencing spiritual curiosity before ever attending a service. This means churches must be prepared to engage people with greater intentionality from the moment they arrive.
Key Takeaway // Many first-time guests are no longer casually checking out church. They’re arriving with genuine questions about God and faith, often after beginning a spiritual journey on their own. Churches must be prepared to meet that curiosity with intentional next steps.
Listen to the Full Episode // They’re Looking for God … Don’t Miss Them: Fixing Your Church’s Assimilation Problem with Greg Curtis & Tommy Carreras (March 26, 2026)
Follow-Up Can’t Be Left to Chance
John Sellers explains how Journey Church creates a clear and repeatable process for helping guests take their next step. Through intentional touchpoints—including a welcoming first interaction, relational next-step environments, and a six-week follow-up process involving texts, emails, phone calls, and personal invitations—the church ensures guests don’t simply attend once and disappear. Consistent follow-up may not be flashy, but it remains one of the most effective growth strategies churches can implement.
Key Takeaway // Fast-growing churches rarely rely on a single welcome interaction. They build systems that encourage guests to take multiple steps over several weeks, increasing the likelihood that visitors become connected participants.
Listen to the Full Episode // From Guests to Baptisms: Building Clear Next Steps with John Sellers (November 13, 2025)
A Clear Pathway Helps People Keep Moving
Ashley Lentz outlines Lutheran Church of Hope’s discipleship pathway, which helps leaders identify where people are spiritually and what their next step should be. Rather than treating every attendee the same, the church intentionally helps people move from seeker to believer, from believer to follower, and ultimately into servant leadership. The framework creates clarity for both staff and volunteers while helping people continue growing long after their first visit.
Key Takeaway // People are far more likely to stay engaged when churches provide a defined pathway for spiritual growth. Clarity helps both guests and leaders understand what comes next.
Listen to the Full Episode // Clarity Is Kindness: Simplifying Next Steps in a Growing Church with Ashley Lentz (September 18, 2025)
Data Is a Tool for Shepherding, Not Just Administration
Ronee de Leon of TouchPoint challenges churches to view their database as more than a record-keeping system. Using her framework of Conviction, Collection, Clarity, and Care, she explains how churches can use data to proactively identify opportunities for discipleship and connection. Effective data practices ensure people do not fall through the cracks and allow churches to provide personalized care at scale.
Key Takeaway // Churches cannot effectively shepherd hundreds—or thousands—of people through memory alone. Healthy systems and meaningful data help leaders identify opportunities for connection, care, and discipleship before people drift away.
Listen to the Full Episode // From Data to Discipleship: The Four Cs Every Church Needs with Ronee de Leon (April 30, 2026)
This episode serves as a timely challenge for church leaders preparing for the months ahead. As more spiritually curious people walk through church doors, the question isn’t whether guests are coming. It’s whether our systems, pathways, and follow-up processes are prepared to help them stay. The churches seeing the greatest impact are not leaving assimilation to chance. They’re intentionally creating environments where people can move from a first visit to a life transformed by Jesus.
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Episode Transcript
Rich Birch — Friends, Rich here from the unSeminary Podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in. We’ve got a very special compilation episode for you.
Rich Birch — Listen, I have heard echoes of similar things happening over the last year or so on the podcast, so we’re pulling together these episodes because I want to point out to you critical lessons for your church, particularly here in the summertime, as you think about what are some things that we should be reloading for this fall. Listen, friends, you know, and I know that you and I are a part of the local church and the local church is the only organization in the world that exists for people that are not here yet. You and I should be fanatically focused on the front door.
Rich Birch — We should be first-time-guest-obsessed. And on today’s episode, I want to peek in on four discussions that talk about changing dynamics when it comes to connecting with first time guests. And no conversation around this whole area of assimilation would be complete without talking to and listening to Greg Curtis.
Rich Birch — If you do not know Greg, where have you been? He’s been at Eastside Church for the last decade running their assimilation work. And he’s really seeing some interesting shifts in particularly young adults when it comes that I keep seeing across the country. And in this clip, he’s going to open up and tell you about a subtle shift that he has seen and some of the changes they’ve made around assimilating people when they come in.
Rich Birch — Now, today’s conversation, we’re going to really frame around Greg’s three part model. We talk about the screen to the seat, the seat to the circle, and then the circle to the street. We want you to understand that how we’re connecting with guests today is different than what it looked like five years ago.
Rich Birch — It’s definitely different than what it looked like pre-COVID. So let’s listen in first and see if we can catch what Greg is seeing and think about the dynamics that you’re seeing at your church. Listen in to what Greg’s got to say…
[Clip 1 Begins]
Rich Birch — People get assimilated, get connected. What have you noticed maybe something that’s maybe different in the way people are engaging right now that’s different than maybe even a year or two ago?
Greg Curtis — A crescendo over the last two years has been remarkable in its shift towards—this is going to sound crazy because we’re talking to churches—they’re wanting God now. And what I mean by that is prior, we were having to sell the benefits of following Jesus – most growing churches, which there are. And I think it was a compelling thing to share with the culture.
Greg Curtis — And so people were coming to church to find community, to find help with parenting, to find support in marriage or to, you know, a variety of different things. And so the draw and what was causing people to engage with church was really, what help in my life? How can I increase the quality of my life? Maybe even get some pretty powerful pain points addressed.
Greg Curtis — This has shifted. I’ll put it in the terms of our young adult pastor. His name is Charles. He came to me. He said, Greg, prior to two, three years ago, maybe not even that long, he said young adults were coming, 80% of them to find friends and community, and about 20% to find God.
Greg Curtis — He goes, it’s flipped. It’s flipped. Now it’s 80% God and 20% community.
Greg Curtis — And that has expressed itself in some remarkable ways. I’ll just throw two out. At the end of last year, I was covering somebody, a pastor who was going to baptize somebody after the service. He had to be gone. So I said, yeah, I’ll cover it. So in our context, I’ll meet that person ahead of time and kind of show them where to sit in the service, when to come out, where the baptistry is, et cetera.
Greg Curtis — And I met her. She was 28 years old, named Connie. And I said, as we’re walking through the baptistry, so, you know, I asked these typical questions: how long have you been coming to Eastside, which is my church?
Greg Curtis — And she says, oh, I’ve never been to Eastside. I was like, oh, so you’re from our online campus. And she goes, no, I’ve never really heard of Eastside.
Greg Curtis — And I said, well, what’s led you to be baptized today? And this was her story. She goes, I grew up in a very non-religious home, and I’ve never been to church. And I vowed I’d never even date a religious person. But I had some friends, three months ago, that invited me to watch The Chosen with them. I didn’t want to.
Greg Curtis — I was mad at myself for getting engaged after the first episode, kept watching, decided to buy myself a Bible two months ago. I started reading the Old Testament and New Testament concurrently and decided I love Jesus and I want to follow Him, and I could tell what I needed to do was get baptized. But, get this, I’m the game day operations coordinator for the NFL. So I work on Sundays, and I just Googled who would baptize me on a Saturday. And your form came up, and I filled it out. So here I am.
Rich Birch — Wow. That’s amazing.
Greg Curtis — Yeah. And I’ll tell you what, she didn’t know, Rich, that this baptism was going to be in front of other people until we were in the water and the whole church was looking at her.
Rich Birch — Wow. That’s incredible.
Greg Curtis — The questions she had, we’ve remained in touch. The questions she asks are so precious. But I’m telling you, I’ve had a few of those that are similar. That one’s pretty dramatic, but are very similar. No background at all. They’re coming because they’re having a God moment before they get to us.
Rich Birch — Yeah.
Greg Curtis — And that’s a big shift because God is doing something literally worldwide and in our culture right now that they’re coming to us to find God, and they’re already encountering him in some way, and they need help with that and want it. And that’s a huge shift.
[Clip 1 Ends]
Rich Birch — Fantastic. Listen, if 80% of the guests are arriving at your church with a God question burning in their heart, the first 60 minutes, what we do every single weekend is critically important. I have seen this over my career.
Rich Birch — Listen, I had recently one of those birthdays with a zero on the end. And I can tell you, as someone who’s been three decades into ministry experience, there was a time where people stumbled into our churches. And that’s just frankly not happening anymore.
Rich Birch — People are arriving with real questions. And we might have been able to, in a previous generation, entertain them or try to diffuse this idea that we ain’t your mama’s church. But that isn’t where people are at anymore.
Rich Birch — They’re coming with real live questions in their heart. They’re not stumbling into your church on Sunday morning because they don’t know what’s going on there. They’re coming looking for real questions.
Rich Birch — And you and I, our processes, what we do on Sunday morning has got to meet that intensity. We can’t just hand them a coffee mug and say, we’ll see you next week. We’ve got to follow them up with some fervor and excitement and frankly a bit more intensity than what most churches are doing.
Rich Birch — I love this conversation that’s coming up with John Sellers. He’s executive pastor of locations at Journey Church in Central Florida—three campuses with a fourth on the way—and is one of the most consistently fastest-growing churches in the country. Now, listen to what John talks about when he talks about the follow-up process, that they aren’t just leaving it to chance. They are working with intention to move these first time guests and get them plugged in.
Rich Birch — The question I have for you is, is this the kind of intensity that you’re following up your first time guests with? Let’s listen in.
[Clip 2 Begins]
John Sellers — So at our church, every location has a tent. It’s a new here tent. And so the first step that we’re communicating, the clear step on that first or second week is: stop by the tent.
John Sellers — Like, I know that’s a big step and we have to remind our serve team. And behind the curtain, that seems simple to us, but like to a new person at a church, even going to a tent or making themselves known by filling out a Connect card, even if it’s digital, like that’s a big step for somebody.
John Sellers — And so a lot of our communication’s go to the tent. We’d love to meet you. We’ve got a gift card for you just to celebrate the step of faith you took to be here today. And so once they take that step, it starts us being able to follow up through text messages, emails, phone calls, and really encouraging them to step into our Next Steps class.
John Sellers — And so when they step into our Next Steps class, one of the things we’re even constantly trying to think through what we call it because “class” probably isn’t the best way to describe it. And we’re actually revamping it right now.
John Sellers — But for us, even that Next Steps class is a round table. It’s relational. It’s getting them around our Next Steps team that wants to hear their story. You know, what brought you through the doors? Wants to begin to hear about maybe what’s on their heart? Where are they at? What’s their next faith step?
John Sellers — And so those are the first couple of weeks. If we can encourage them to stop by the tent, that allows us to stay in contact with them relationally. And then the next step would be go to one of our Next Steps classes after a service.
Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Can we pull apart a bit of the detail there? Just because I know people are wondering this because I get these questions.
Rich Birch — So it sounds like when you arrive at the New Year tent, there’s a gift card there. Where’s that gift card for? What is the value of that? And why a gift card? Talk to us about that.
John Sellers — Yes. So for now, and we’ve experimented, we’ll change this up like constantly. But right now it’s for a local coffee shop. And it’s literally a $5 gift card. It’s just a thank you to say thank you for coming.
John Sellers — It’s a little gift bag. It’s got information about our church, obviously. And it’s just a step. The way we phrase it is we know it’s a big step of faith you took to be here today. And so we just want to celebrate the fact that you made it in the room. And so that’s what it is – $5.
John Sellers — On big events, we’ll do a Journey Church cup and make it a little more substantial. But it’s just a $5 gift card to a local coffee shop.
Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s great. And I love the thinking behind that, friends, that are listening in, is sometimes what I see churches do, they’ll be like, hey, if you want to get connected, or if you’ve got interested about your Next Steps, or if you’re wondering where to go, drop by the tent outside. People are not asking that question when they first come.
Rich Birch — We’ve got to take a celebratory step. And I like what you’re saying. I love that language of we want to celebrate the faith step by being here today. And we want to give you a gift in exchange for that. People will do that for a $5 gift card, or a coffee mug, or whatever. That’s good.
Rich Birch — And then the other thing that caught my attention you said was, you said: and we follow up with texts and emails. Talk about how many of that, what’s that communication process look like? There’s another area where I see churches drop the ball all the time.
John Sellers — Sure, it’s a variety. There’s a workflow that we use through our database system planning center that is owned by our Weekend Experience team members. But basically, it starts with an email from our lead pastor with a short video for them to watch, a message directly from him.
John Sellers — It includes a text message or phone call from the location pastors within two weeks. It includes other text messages and emails. So it lasts about six weeks. And it’s more information about how to take steps at our church.
John Sellers — And so some of its vision, a lot of it is geared towards stepping into the Next Steps class. But yes, it’s multiple, and it’s a variety. And it’s over the span of six weeks. And then we even have, you know, workflows built out that, you know, if somebody goes through that six-week process without taking the next step, that periodically we’ll check back in with them.
[Clip 2 Ends]
Rich Birch — Boring stuff grows churches. I’ve said it before. I’m going to keep saying it.
Rich Birch — A monthly Next Steps cadence or New Year cadence, whatever you call it at your church, a $5 gift card may not be exciting, but it’s the kind of thing that we see time and time again at fast-growing churches. But the question is, what happens after week six? Where do we take people beyond this initial connection?
Rich Birch — In fact, I’ve seen in some churches that have done extensive studies on this. If people do not get plugged in in the first 100 days, they might come, they might even come back. But if they don’t take a significant step, that is get on a team or in a group in those first 100 days, they will just not connect to your church.
Rich Birch — So I want to peek in on a conversation we had with Ashley Lentz. She’s the Connections Pastor at a fantastic church, Lutheran Church of Hope, a multi-site church with seven campuses in Central Iowa. There’s 7,000 people at their one location every single weekend.
Rich Birch — And she really takes the longer arc view. Where do we go? It’s really, going back to what Greg talked about, there’s this kind of seat to circle, and then there’s the circle to street. That’s what this conversation is all about. How do we get these people who have taken these first few steps, what are we doing to get them actually plugged in? Let’s listen in to what Ashley has to say.
Rich Birch — There’s so much we can learn here. And again, I want you to be thinking about when you think about this fall at your church, are there some things you should be adjusting as we go into the fall?
[Clip 3 Begins]
Ashley Lentz — One of the tools that we use, and it is very much an internal tool is what I would call it. We call it the Hope Circle. And it is what I would call a discipleship tool or a discipleship pathway.
Ashley Lentz — And if I were to say that to our congregation members, they would really have no idea what I’m talking about. It is very internal. But it’s helpful to identify where people are on this Hope Circle.
Ashley Lentz — And so the circle starts with being a seeker. At a church our size, we have people every weekend who have zero idea what the church thing is about. They’ve maybe never been introduced to Jesus. Someone just invited them to church. They maybe knew they needed church and walked in the door, but have no idea what to expect. And so they are seeking something that has been missing in their life.
Ashley Lentz — And so helping people identify if that’s where you are, here are kind of the very preliminary places that would be helpful for you to start plugging in. As we move around that circle, we get to believers, people who are like, okay, I’m bought into the Jesus thing. I’ve heard the message, I believe, now what? I wanna understand this better. I believe in Jesus. I believe in God. I’m here for it, but I don’t really know the things.
Ashley Lentz — So where do we go from there and how do we help them then move into being super excited about Jesus? I don’t just believe, I’m on fire for Jesus. I’m a follower, right? I am all in, my life looks different. I’ve been transformed. How do I follow him?
Ashley Lentz — And then how do you serve people in that arena too? Because that’s gonna look different than somebody who’s come in as a seeker looking for Jesus and somebody who’s on fire for Jesus.
Ashley Lentz — So how do we move them around the circle? So it’s seeker, believer, follower, and then kind of the last part of our circle is servant leader. How do we move them then into serving and letting the transformed nature of the gospel pour out of them into the world around us?
Ashley Lentz — And I would say our secret sauce here at Hope is we love volunteers. Like as we move people around the Hope Circle, I and my colleagues, we want to equip people to lead. So being a servant leader inside these walls, but also outside these walls is really like, that’s what’s attractional to people is letting them know like you’re on fire for Jesus, go tell everyone about it and serve in the arena you find yourself in, whether in the church or outside the church.
[Clip 3 Ends]
Rich Birch — A pathway you can’t measure is a pathway you cannot improve. Friends, you’ve got a brain problem. Over 200 people, you simply cannot track where people are at in the processes we have talked about before.
Rich Birch — Your mind literally cannot hold in place where all of these people are at in their process. And so underneath everything we’ve talked about today, you need a robust approach to data.
Rich Birch — Listen, your church database is a care mechanism. It’s just a way we make sure people do not fall through the cracks. And so everything that we’ve talked about in today’s episode needs a robust approach to data and the way you handle data to move people just from a broad, kind of like they’re attending all the way through to caring, ensuring that they are plugged in. So I wanna peek into one final conversation.
Rich Birch — Ronee de Leon, she’s the executive director of Partner Church Success at Touchpoint. But outside of that, she’s formerly on staff at a large multi-site church in Columbus, Ohio. And Touchpoint sits across hundreds of churches and Ronee sees the patterns.
Rich Birch — Listen, what I want you to listen to carefully here is these four Cs that she talks about. Conviction, collection, clarity, care. And ask your question, are you doing this with your data?
Rich Birch — Does your data structure actually allow you to move people along in a way that ensures that we’re actually getting them plugged in? Friends, I don’t want you to miss the opportunity that God’s bringing your way. And this conversation could help you think differently about that, particularly in the next couple of months.
[Clip 4 Begins]
Ronee de Leon — Let’s alliterate some more. Like I said, I was on church staff for a long time.
Rich Birch — Yes, exactly.
Ronee de Leon — And it does become memorable, right? So this is a really simple framework that really is more stages. It’s a progression. But even though it’s simple, whether they know it or not, every church is in one of these stages when it comes to data-driven discipleship.
Ronee de Leon — And so four kind of Cs of this or stages are conviction, collection, clarity, and care. And I’ll just give a brief description of each of those and then we can go dive in a little bit deeper.
Ronee de Leon — But conviction, really the question that we’re answering here is, do you truly believe this matters even when it’s not easy? So leaders believe that shepherding is important, but do we wanna move into doing it proactively? And are we comfortable using data as a tool to do that well? So that’s kind of the conviction piece. Do you really believe that this matters?
Ronee de Leon — Collection then, are you committed to consistently gathering the data that’s needed? Not just once, but as a rhythm. It’s hard work, but it is a worthy cause, a valiant effort.
Ronee de Leon — Let’s move to clarity real quick. Again, the question we’re answering is, now that you have the data, do you have the insight? Do you really see what it’s telling you? And what are we doing with it?
Ronee de Leon — And then the last one here, of course, is where we’re acting on the insights to connect with our people. Will you actually act on the insights and shepherd people or will it stay theoretical? That’s kind of where we’re headed with this.
[Clip 4 Ends]
Rich Birch — We started this off today talking about how we see this pattern happening across the church. And I think these four episodes really hang incredibly together. Greg Curtis, he really named the moment that we’re in. I really do think that we’re seeing something that is generationally important. And I do not want your church to miss it.
Rich Birch — John Sellers, I thought gave a really clear discussion around how we move these people that are arriving. How do we get them to take those first steps and get plugged in?
Rich Birch — Then Ashley Lentz, she unpacked what it looked like to go from the seat to the circle, to the circle to the street pathway. What are we doing to actually get people to plug in deep in our community?
Rich Birch — And then finally, Ronee brought it home, giving us a measurement layer to really bring the whole thing together with some honesty and truth.
Rich Birch — Listen, this is the question: if I was sitting across from you and your staff this week, if I was in your staff meeting, the question I would simply ask is this, which of these four pieces is the weakest in our church as we approach this fall? And what’s the smallest move we could make in the next 30 days to improve where we need to in these areas?
Rich Birch — We’ve got links to all of these show notes before. Please stay tuned. We’ve got incredible episodes coming up all summer long and all fall long here at unSeminary.
Rich Birch — We’re on a mission to help 100 churches like yours grow by a thousand people by talking about stuff they don’t talk about in seminary.
Rich Birch — Thanks so much for being here, friends. We’ll see you next week. Take care.
