You Can Be a Kind Boss and Still Wear Your Team Out with Adam Weber

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Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We’re talking with Adam Weber, founder and lead pastor of Embrace Church in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. What began in 2006 with 32 people has grown into a multisite church reaching thousands each week. Along the way, Adam has experienced explosive growth, painful leadership setbacks, seasons of rebuilding, and renewed momentum.

Has your church hit a plateau after years of growth? Are you carrying more than your team can sustain? Wondering how greater clarity and healthier leadership rhythms could help your church move forward? Tune in as Adam shares lessons from Embrace’s lowest season and explains how greater self-awareness, organizational focus, and the Traction framework helped reshape both his leadership and the church.

• Growth can expose unhealthy leadership. // Embrace experienced significant growth from 2009 through 2016, but Adam admits that his drive to keep moving forward eventually took a toll on his team. He wasn’t an angry or demanding leader in obvious ways, but he constantly pushed toward the next goal. Looking back, Adam realized that leaders can genuinely love people and still wear them out. Good intentions don’t automatically produce healthy leadership.
• Own your part in the problem. // A painful staff conflict eventually resulted in 10 of the 16 people closest to Adam leaving the church, along with hundreds of attendees. While it was easy initially to blame others, Adam gradually recognized how his own leadership contributed to the situation. He had to confront people-pleasing, his relentless pace, and the ways he had failed to care for his team. That willingness to take responsibility became foundational to Embrace’s recovery.
• Build a circle that can handle the truth. // Adam leaned heavily on his wife, close friends, therapy, and trusted ministry relationships during his lowest season. These were people who allowed him to express grief, anger, and confusion without abandoning him. They also helped him see blind spots he couldn’t recognize on his own. Leaders need people who love them deeply but aren’t overly impressed by them—people who can offer both support and honest feedback.
• Learn to pause. // One of the clearest changes in Adam’s leadership today is his willingness to slow down. He pauses more in meetings, accepts when team members say no, and resists the urge to squeeze one more project into the schedule. Rather than automatically pushing for what is possible, he now asks whether pursuing another opportunity will unnecessarily burden the team. Slowing down has helped him become both healthier and more sustainable as a leader.
• Protect your own soul. // Adam also changed the way he approaches personal health and his relationship with God. Instead of allowing busyness to crowd out time with Jesus, he now increases that time when ministry becomes more demanding. He intentionally creates margin, eats lunch, steps away, and takes breaks that once would have felt unproductive.
• Use clarity to create focus. // After COVID, Embrace implemented the Traction framework based on the EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) model. The process helped the leadership team revisit its vision, identify its distinctives, define its target audience, and establish a long-term goal. Embrace clarified its mission as “relentlessly reaching the next person for Jesus” and identified relatability as one of its key distinctives. That clarity has helped the church say no to distractions and concentrate energy around its primary mission.
• Break big vision into smaller steps. // Traction helped Embrace move from a 10-year vision to three-year, one-year, and 90-day priorities. Every 90 days, leaders identify five or six major “rocks” that deserve focused attention. Each rock has a clear owner, measurable milestones, and weekly accountability. Rather than chasing whatever feels urgent or exciting, the team continually returns to the handful of priorities it has already agreed matter most.
• Let accountability replace micromanagement. // The system has also helped Adam release control. Team members own specific priorities and report whether each one is on track or off track. That accountability means Adam doesn’t have to constantly monitor every detail. The process has increased ownership across the staff while allowing him to function more effectively as the visionary instead of becoming the bottleneck.
• Listen to the people you serve. // Embrace also uses an annual survey to gather candid feedback from attendees. Open-ended questions reveal recurring patterns that leaders might otherwise miss. One example was parking, an issue Adam barely noticed because he wasn’t experiencing the church like a first-time guest. Listening carefully to people has helped the church identify practical problems and respond before they become barriers to growth.

To learn more about Adam Weber or connect, visit adamweber.com or find him on Instagram at @adamaweber. To learn more about Embrace Church, its campuses, and how the church is relentlessly reaching the next person for Jesus, visit iamembrace.com.

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Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Intulse

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Episode Transcript

Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary Podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in. Listen, lean in on today’s conversation, ah because I know you’re going to have some stuff you can pull out of this for your church. There’s some part of this discussion that’s going to help you as you think through leading in the season you’re currently in.

Rich Birch — We’re honored to have Adam Weber with us. He’s the founder and lead pastor of Embrace Church, which began in 2006, with just 32 people gathered at a worship service. Today, it’s a few more than 32. Embrace is one church with, if I’m counting correctly, five campuses worshiping with thousands each week around Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Outreach Magazine named these guys, Embrace, one of the fastest growing churches in the country in 2026. Adam is the author of Talking with God and Love Has a Name. He hosts the Life Between Sundays podcast while he and his wife, Becky, have four kids. Adam, welcome to the show. So glad you’re here.

Adam Weber — Oh, Rich, huge honor. I know I said this before to you. You are someone that I’ve looked to for wisdom, encouragement, insight for many years. And so this for me is a huge honor. And I do I just really don’t take it lightly. Honestly, if it was anything else today, I’m headed to the cabin right after this. If it was anything else, I’d be like, ah, let’s pass on that. But for me, like for me, this is one of those like key true honors. And so I just thank you big time. I’m just on behalf, honestly, of so many people who listen just like me and read your writing. Thank you.

Rich Birch — That’s kind of you to say. That’s really kind of you to say. This is between you and the cabin. So we’ll make this quick. We’ll get this. We’ll move this on. I don’t want to…

Adam Weber — No. No, there is zero rush. Zero rush.

Rich Birch — No, I’m just kidding. That’s that’s great. That’s fantastic. So why don’t you kind of give us the story, the the Embrace story. It’s like 20 years in a few minutes.

Adam Weber — Yeah.

Rich Birch — Take us back to 2026, back to those 32 people. What did that look like? And then paint the picture of where Embrace is today.

Adam Weber — Oh, so I always, when I encourage pastors, I’m like, do the opposite of what we did. So I was going into my third and final year at Asbury Seminary. So I was living in Kentucky and my pastor who led me to Christ, led me to my wife, led me into ministry, led me to Asbury, had the initial idea of a new church in Sioux Falls.

Adam Weber — He’s the one who who reached out to me and said, hey, we’re we’re thinking about starting a church in Sioux Falls. What do you think? And I’m like, I think Sioux Falls has enough churches.

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — Like I don’t think… and and then who’s gonna pastor this thing? He’s like, that’s why I’m calling you.

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — Like I don’t think and and then who’s gonna pastor this thing And I was like, ah, I’m not in, I’m actually not interested. We love Kentucky, the weather, the history, so much of it. We love. So we had no plans of coming back to South Dakota. And he ah told us to pray about it. We didn’t.

Adam Weber — And then he found then we then he found out I was coming back to do my brother’s brother’s wedding. Uh, so the week of us coming back, he said, Hey, how about you send an email and I’ll send an email. We’ll see who shows up. And I’m like, nobody’s going to show up. It’s going to be Labor Day weekend. Nobody’s going to come. I’m not even interested in being this thing. So I was like, this is the perfect way to kind of get them off my case.

Adam Weber — So we sent a couple of emails. That night, September 4, 2006, 32 people showed up. And I was depressed cause 32 showed up. I was, I was hoping for zero and, and…

Rich Birch — Oh, no. Now we got to do something.

Adam Weber — …and my, my, my pastor was pumped. So he, once a month, he’s like, Adam, once a month, we’re going to fly you back for services and we’ll just see how this goes now. Now, quick note. At the time, were United Methodist. And so we had 40 years worth of failed church starts in North and South Dakota. And so they were very reluctant, you know, specifically going to be a new seminary grad.

Adam Weber — So we kind of needed to prove to the denomination that people would come. So that’s why we started once a month, even though I was in seminary. So I’d come back every time, I’m like, this is such a bad idea. I mean literally months into it I’m like this is a bad idea. And but I just didn’t have the courage to tell my pastor no. He’s just an amazing, godly man. Zero. He put zero pressure on me, which made it even harder for me to say no.

Rich Birch — Sure.

Adam Weber — And so once a month I’d come back and then sure enough, I ended up getting appointed to start this church. So I came back in 2007, we kept once a week worship. We kept once a month worship.

Adam Weber — In March of ’08 we went to weekly Sunday evening services. And we struggled to grow. We were just struggling to get above 100. I mean, we were just, we were almost closed. About once a quarter, the denomination would say, We just don’t think you’re financially sustainable. We don’t think this is going to work. Even early, early on, I can remember a one denominational leader said, when this church fails. What are we going to do?

Rich Birch — Oh wow. Wow.

Adam Weber — And so that was kind of the mindset going into it. So September of ’09. Three years in. We moved in through the most insane circumstances, we got our own space on a Sunday morning. And in one morning, we doubled in size.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Adam Weber — And so we went from barely surviving to flourishing. And every week we were seeing more and more new faces. That really began our first season of incredible growth. I was, ah you know I you know, I started Embrace when I was 24. So that would have been three years. I’d have been 27, 28, man. And I was, I was super unhealthy.

Adam Weber — You try for three years to get it to grow. And then it finally grows and you don’t know when the water is going to shut off. So you just keep running faster. And so that was just a really hard season. But really away from that, Embrace has always been the most unlikely of people. Gosh, I feel like if… ah yeah Yeah, it’s just the most unlikely of people to be in church.

Adam Weber — So I went to college in Sioux Falls. And I always said early on, if you would have told me you’re going to start a church, who’s going to come to your church? I would have listed off all the guys that were in bible studies with me blah blah blah. And if you were like, who’s the most unlikely of people? I’d have been like, ah, a lot of the football players and you know, whatever. From that first group, only like one or two came. Because they already had churches and were connected and whatever. From the second group, all of them came.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Adam Weber — And so from really the get-go, it’s just been this most unlikely of people.

Adam Weber — And so since then, we are now we have three physical campuses. We have two God Behind Bars locations. ahRight now, we are we just announced earlier this week that we’re launching a fourth physical campus that will be our new broadcast campus…

Rich Birch — It’s amazing.

Adam Weber — …over double the size of our current broadcast. And um still today, it just continues to be the most unlikely of people. And um I feel like we don’t take ourselves seriously, but we take God very seriously. And I think the thing that people are like, what is the thing? I think it’s just really trying to be as relatable as possible. And just trying to make as much of Jesus as we possibly can.

Rich Birch — That’s cool.

Adam Weber — And for for for me, the more I follow Jesus, the more I realize how wonderful and and grace-filled and loving and truth-filled he is. And so it’s just trying to share that as as clearly and as simply as we can. So I’m talking too much.

Rich Birch — No, no, not at all. That’s great. That’s so good. You know, we track pretty closely the Outreach 100 list here at unSeminary. We look at it and our…

Adam Weber — Yeah.

Rich Birch — …you know, the secret we find a lot of guests there. And um when, you know, I was looking at this, there’s this interesting kind of blip of history where Embrace was on the list 10 years ago, ’15, ’16, and then there was a gap, and then congratulations, you’re back on for 2026, which caught my attention, or 2025 caught my attention.

Rich Birch — And I thought, okay, that’s interesting. Like, I wonder what the story is there, you know, when it’s just little… you know, buttons or whatever it’s like it looks really antiseptic on the website. But am I framing that incorrectly?

Adam Weber — No, no.

Rich Birch — Talk me through what happened between these two, ah you know, showing up on this list.

Adam Weber — Very, that’s, you you’re you’re highlighting something that’s very, very true. I first got to say, ah I just shared this with my team on Monday. My first full-time hire, his name’s Travis Waltner. Yeah, he’s always so good at saying, hey, Adam, I know this, you’re fired up about this. Can you share why with our team this matters? And something he had never heard before, I said, I can remember every year when the Outreach 100 came out and I was this new pastor who didn’t have anybody that he could connect with who had led a large thriving church.

Adam Weber — I mean, there’s at that time in Sioux Falls, there just wasn’t really many. Now there’s several, which is awesome. And so I would get that Outreach magazine. And those pastors, I would try to find 5 to 10 churches that were similar to to Embrace, or where I saw us going. And those people never met me or I never talked with them, but they became mentors of mine.

Rich Birch — Right. Yeah. That’s cool.

Adam Weber — And so it’s where I learn from. And so I just told the team, I’m like, it’s so cool to think that like God is now using us and hopefully we can be a blessing to others. Because it’s cool to see fruit grow on your own trees…

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Adam Weber — …but it’s even it’s even better when you help others grow fruit on their trees.

Rich Birch — Oh, so true.

Adam Weber — So that blip that blip though, so growing, growing really from I would say from 2009 to 2016. I mean, just constant growth. At one year we were number four on Outreach, whatever. So I mean, just like enormous growth. We plateaued. And I’m going to talk very unfiltered about myself. As an Enneagram three achiever, plateauing is not your favorite thing.

Rich Birch — Okay.

Adam Weber — And so I’ve never been a yeller. I’ve never been, I feel like I could say this confidently, never been an angry boss. But ah something I’ve learned out about myself is I wear people out. You can still be super non-angry and still wear people out.

Adam Weber — And so I didn’t do a great job of caring for my team. I love people. It’s why I I literally, I just love people. I got a steak at a grocery store for lunch today and ended up talking to all these random people. It was my favorite thing. I love people…

Rich Birch — Sure.

Adam Weber — …but I haven’t always been good at loving my team. And so we went through, I wasn’t caring for my team.

Adam Weber — And because of that, someone began to care for my team that was taking the church another direction. And so I let that person go. That’s the only time I’ve let someone go in the history of Embrace. And when I did, again, this is very unfiltered, 10 out of 16 people that were closest with me left.

Rich Birch — Wow. Wow.

Adam Weber — Including one of my, including just a very, very, very close friend. And so, man. It was brutal.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Adam Weber — And out of that, hundreds of people left Embrace. And it wasn’t just people. It was people that I had literally left date nights with my wife to care for ’em. And it was it was people that I skipped, you know, being with my kids to meet with them. And so it was it was brutal. Lowest point in my life, including even harder than losing my brother unexpectedly two years ago.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Adam Weber — With my brother, it was all one feeling, grief.

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — Which is horrible, you know?

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Adam Weber — But with that. There was so many feelings. I mean, I was done. I was I was done. I was done with everything except Jesus. When it came to ministry, I mean, I wanted to give up and then…And then um I stuck with it. I don’t know how. I honestly, looking back, 2018, I literally don’t know how I survived.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Adam Weber — And again, I want to make sure I take ownership. I had a lot to learn about myself. And it’s it’s it was my leadership that allowed the situation that happened with with the person um so that’s that’s not on them that’s all me And so. But yeah, we we we it was rock bottom. It was brutal.

Adam Weber — And then we just started. It was just like one foot in front of the next.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Adam Weber — And we just we I mean, it was just like you began to see some resemblance of daylight. I mean, it was so bad, I can’t even tell you. And it’s in Sioux Falls is not that large of a town.

Rich Birch — Sure.

Adam Weber — And so it’s like, I thought every everything that God had done was over. I mean no good days were ahead of us. I mean I couldn’t see anything. And then just little by little. And little by little and little by little. And then we started getting momentum right before COVID.

Rich Birch — Classic. Classic.

Adam Weber — So this, this is what’s kind of crazy. And I, I’m not, I don’t want to, I’m not devaluing COVID whatsoever, but like, so away from the the tragedy of COVID. COVID for me as a pastor was a cakewalk. I’m like, we could not have services for the next 15 years, and this would be nothing compared to 2018.

Rich Birch — Right. Okay. Yes.

Adam Weber — And so what was kind of cool was I was able to be. And so many hit people had done this for me, but I was able to be a light to other pastors. Because they hadn’t gone through 2018. So it was really cool because for me, I couldn’t have been more at peace during it. Because, ah again, I was just glad that we were healthy.

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — And so it ended up being really cool. And then when we came out of COVID, we started a process called Traction, which I just have to mention. Traction, away from God’s kindness and amazing people, Traction. It’s been huge. Since 2021 we started Traction in August and that just helped us focus and now we’re just seeing, I’ve never had this much fun in my life.

Rich Birch — Traction like the Larry Bossidy, that book?

Adam Weber — So, yeah, it’s so it’s the it’s an EOS.

Rich Birch — EOS, yep.

Adam Weber — It’s a lot, a lot of, a lot of businesses use it, a lot of nonprofits use it, a person on our lead team.

Rich Birch — Yep, yep, yep.

Adam Weber — We were just trying to figure out, so what are we doing?

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.

Adam Weber — You know, like COVID had just come. And so it was a, if you’re going to start over on your strategy, it’s a perfect time to do it.

Rich Birch — Right. Might as well.

Adam Weber — So they just said, I think we should go through Traction. And I’m like, I have no idea what that is. And he’s like, well. All these major businesses in Sioux Falls are all Traction businesses.

Rich Birch — Yes. Yes.

Adam Weber — And I’m like, no way. And this nonprofit’s a Traction nonprofit.

Adam Weber — So we looked into it. They’d helped us set a 10-year goal. And then off of that, a three-year goal, one-year goal, and then every 90 days you have rocks.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Adam Weber — Before that though, I should say, they re…like is your vision statement truly your vision statement. So ours was reaching the next person for Jesus. This sounds so small. One guy on our team who’s not an Enneagram three, he said, I don’t think that’s accurate to who we are.

Adam Weber — And I was like. What do you mean? And he’s like. That just seems seems way more chill than what we are. And I was like, okay, what do you mean? He’s like, we’re like relentless about it. We’re like, if someone needed help and they didn’t know Jesus, we would do everything we could to get to them. We wouldn’t just try to reach them. We would relentlessly.

Adam Weber — And it was so crazy coming from that individual specifically that I said, I feel like that’s so true. We added that in. And then you set kind of like, what are your distinct things that separate you maybe from others? So ours is relatability is our number one.

Rich Birch — yep

Adam Weber — And that just really dialed us in. And even just one small thing, even like who’s our target audience, we we kind of set it.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Adam Weber — And we said young families was in it. Well, young families was in it when we first started Embrace. And we kind of went away from it. Because, you know, I had young kids that needed a nursery back then, but now I don’t. And so now.a nursery had become optional, because it’s like, oh, it’s not a big deal. Well, when you have little kids, it’s a huge deal. And when you have little kids, it’s a huge deal, and you’re the lead pastor, you have nursery and everything because you want your wife there, and you want other people to be able to come. So there was a couple of things that we just got off track a little bit that we just dialed into. So I just need to say that.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. I do want to dig into Traction a little bit more, but I’d love to take a step back and talk about your own journey around you know, just having to process your ownership of 2018. And what was, what did that look like? Like, how did you find some health around that? Was it, you know, did someone challenge you? Did you end up getting some help? What did that look like to to actually try to process through that.

Adam Weber — I…

Rich Birch — I like that sound that’s like, oh I don’t really want to talk about this.

Adam Weber — Yeah, yeah. Forever. For for me…um I can’t remember one time the Lord is as clear as I could hear it said, Lord said to me: Adam, I’ve been trying to address this people pleaser inside of you since you were a little boy.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Adam Weber — And and whether or not I caused this situation to happen is irrelevant. I’m most definitely gonna use it to address some things inside of you.

Adam Weber — I was forced to address some things inside of me. Everything from being a people pleaser, wearing people out, not caring for my team. I really didn’t have an option.

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — I mean, it was just so…

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — It was there. I mean, there there were Sundays before certain staff left that I’d be on stage with with an individual, and I mean he ah they hated me. Ah you could feel it in the air. I mean, I can remember Sundays that I literally didn’t want to go to church because of how scared I was. Not like for fear of my life, but like just like the awkwardness. So I was forced to deal with it. And I because I couldn’t make everyone happy for the first time in my life And so, I I stood my my wife and my best non-family member, best friend, his name’s Tyler Goff. He’s a realtor. I would talk to my wife and Tyler every day and ask them if I if I could quit my job, probably for six to eight months. Can I quit my job? And they would basic both say, nope. Nope. But we, you know, Tyler, every single time he answered the phone.

Adam Weber — So it was just processing that pain, first off and all the hurt. And early on, it was everybody’s fault.

Rich Birch — Sure.

Adam Weber — You know, it’s like, it’s everybody else. It’s everybody else. It’s everybody else. That’s I wouldn’t say that publicly. I said it internally. The only thing that I really did did well during this time is I did, I really felt like I was not supposed to talk to anybody outside my little tiny circle. And I didn’t feel like I was supposed to to defend myself. So I really just felt like, nope, there was, you know, the Lord will be your defender. I don’t know what it was.

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — I just felt that internally. So I just, I didn’t talk. I didn’t eEven what I’ve said, I’ve been trying to be really, really intentional. I just have not bad-mouthed anybody…

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — …at all. And that’s God’s protection because I wanted to. But so I just, but anybody who reached out to me, I would meet with them. And cause you know, there was all these questions and I would say, there’s no question that’s off limits. You can ask me anything. And if I bad mouth anybody, even for a second, that’s unacceptable. So please cut me off if I start speaking. So I just. I did a lot of that, but as far as how to how do I start addressing it? Talking to that close inner circle. And just verbalizing my pain. My, just my, all the feelings.

Adam Weber — I can remember with Travis Walton one time I’m on the phone and I’m embarrassed to say this, but I probably made up swear words. It just came gushing out.

Rich Birch — Sure.

Adam Weber — And I got done with this emotional outlet over the phone to him and I said and now you probably hate me. And he said, no. I’ve actually been wondering when that was all going to come out.

Rich Birch — That’s cool. It’s good to have friends like that.

Adam Weber — And I was I was like, you don’t hate me? And he’s like, no. You literally have not said a word to anybody or about anything. And I just this has to be killing you. And so I think that was huge.

Adam Weber — Therapy was huge.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Adam Weber — I mean, just going therapy. Also, just like really with Travis Walton or others like help me understand because I’m not angry. I’m not like an angry person.

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — I’m not a yeller boss. Like I’m not a dictator, like you would think like ah that, like someone going through this. I don’t understand why. Like, I’m quick to say thank you. And they’re like, Adam, I know. But like you just don’t have an off switch.

Adam Weber — And so as actually a business leader, he’s he’s still one of my dearest friends, a very just awesome business leader in Sioux Falls. He’s the one who gave me the terminology. Adam, you and I, we don’t yell at people. We don’t, you know, throw stuff. We just wear people out.

Adam Weber — I was like, Oh, man.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Adam Weber — And because so that did because I couldn’t see that.

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — And s I was like, you know, I’m saying thank you. I’m not angry. I don’t understand why this is a big deal that I wear people out.

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — Well, because they have lives.

Rich Birch — Right, yes.

Adam Weber — And because they they feel like you’re you’re just using them. And that you don’t actually care for them. Because all you care about is the next hill that you want to climb.

Adam Weber — Even if you got the best intents of teach, like my drive in life is telling people about Jesus. because i I know what it’s like to be lost. And I can’t imagine being wired like me and not know the hope, joy, peace. Every, life found in Christ.

Adam Weber — I’d never heard the gospel until I was a sophomore in high school and I never missed church my entire life. And so I was just like, when I heard about Jesus, it was the greatest news I had ever heard. And so I wanted to spend the rest, I hope I’m the guy in the wheelchair at the nursing home going from one room to the next talking people’s ears off and trying to share about Jesus. And so.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s cool

Adam Weber — It was just a lot of like self-awareness.

Rich Birch — Sure. Yeah, that’s great.

Adam Weber — And just really pushing in. And then I got to mention Brad Lomenick too. Being around Brad Lomenick. His gatherings are like non-negotiables for me.

Rich Birch — Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah.

Adam Weber — And just to hear other pastors going through it, and to see them and hear them. So that was, all that. I’m talking too much again.

Rich Birch — No, you’re not talking too much. That’s great. Yeah. And yeah, you know, a good friend of mine says, you know we all need people in our lives, who love us, but aren’t impressed by us. Right. It’s that, you know, which is true, right?

Adam Weber — So true.

Rich Birch —It’s that like, like that friend of yours who was, who said like, Hey, I’m, I was waiting for that to come out. That’s, that’s a gift. What a gift to be that kind of person and to have those kinds of people in our lives for sure.

Rich Birch — So what would you say—and then we’ll, we will get back to Traction—but what would you say, Adam, today, what your leadership, how is it different? Are there different rhythms, different patterns? Did you, are there some kind of a couple behaviors that you look to like, oh, this is new, kind of new Adam rather than where we were you know 15 years ago or 10 years ago

Adam Weber — I would say so a couple of things that have been told to me first.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Adam Weber — You you pause. You’re you pause more, like in a meeting. You pause more.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.

Adam Weber — You also, like I’ve always had a deep respect for, for if we don’t have the money for something, I’m not going to be the person let’s green light it. And just trust God. I want to take faith steps, but I’m not I’ve always had that healthy fear of like, I don’t want to put the church in a bad place. And people around me would say, you now have the same fear, in a good way, of not burning your team out.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Adam Weber — So when you see that in the past, I would have been like, but is there in any way we could possibly do it still? Like I got told even no about something today, like just a small thing I wanted it to do. And Emily really, she, she, my assistant, she pursued it. And she was the one and she’s like, I just don’t think we should do this. In the past in the past, I would have been like, well, is there any way that we could do this still?

Adam Weber — You know, like again, not a yeller. I wouldn’t have been like, Emily, you should do this, blah, blah, blah. I would have probably used like, hey, there’s not a way that we can? So I think it’s just a healthy like pause.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.

Adam Weber — And then, but but then like the practical things, well, it’s even going to the the the cabin after this. I would have seen no need for it. Um…

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.

Adam Weber — …you know like I would have been like, I don’t understand why I’m doing this. I kind of just I could probably work though. So like, so it’s…

Rich Birch — Right. I could send some more emails and give some people some more feedback on things, just to be helpful.

Adam Weber — Yeah. Emily’s smiling just as you just said that. She’s like, oh, sweet baby Jesus. So I think it’s pausing. I’ve always spent time with Jesus, always.

Rich Birch — Sure.

Adam Weber — I mean, my I’m just so hungry for God. But now it’s like it is like yeah untouchable. Like I get up and I’m at the coffee shop by 7 a.m. And I’m just sitting with the Lord. And like this morning, I didn’t bring my computer out with me to the coffee shop. I just sat and I got scripture open. I got my journal and I’m reading.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Adam Weber — And man, the busier my day gets, oh the more time I’m spending with Jesus.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Adam Weber — In the past, I would have squeezed out that time of Jesus because I got to go.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Adam Weber — And now it’s like, no, no, no, I’m so busy that I need to spend even more time with him.

Rich Birch — That’s so good.

Adam Weber — And, um and then instead of like shoving one more, I’m still working on this, but in the past it was like, okay, let’s do this interview. And then, you know as I’m whatever, let’s have the next thing right up next to it, and then the next thing. And I would start, I’ve always verbalized it to my myself and my wife. I feel like a robot without a soul.

Rich Birch — Oh wow.

Adam Weber — I would treat myself like that. And now I don’t want to treat myself like a robot without a soul.

Adam Weber — So now what I’ll do, like me going to Hy-Vee, the grocery store, and getting a randomly getting a steak for lunch would have never happened.

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — A, I literally wouldn’t have ate lunch. I would say up until three years ago, I literally didn’t eat lunch.

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — And now I like I mean it’s stuff like that…

Rich Birch — Yeah. That’s good.

Adam Weber — …that is seems really small, but it’s huge to me.

Rich Birch — No, that’s good. I love that. That’s super helpful. Thanks for letting me go down that road with you.

Rich Birch — Let’s take a step back and and talk about Traction. So the 10 year, the 90 day, the what do I do on Tuesday afternoon? I’d love to kind of talk through all of that. So so you define the 10 year goal. How did you get clarity around that? What what does that actually look like? How are you making steps towards that? Talk us through that.

Adam Weber — So good. I so I can’t tell enough pastors about this. So I didn’t read the book and I’ve been told the book is kind of confusing. If you can find someone in your community, specifically if you’ve got ah a business leader in your church that’s willing to donate his time or her she’s willing to donate her time, try to get, if there’s there’s usually in community, there’s there’s people who lead you through this process.

Adam Weber — So we had a guy named Mike Ritter. I got to shout out Mike. He doesn’t attend our church. He donated his time for us to go through it because he’s a faith man.

Rich Birch — That’s amazing.

Adam Weber — So we had our lead team, and which is the group that I report to along with the strategy team, the group that reports to me. We just brought them all together. And we wrestled with our vision, you know, kind of key things that set us apart. Who is our target audience? And then we really began to pray through what is our 10-year goal?

Adam Weber — So our 10-year goal that we set back in ’21—I know these numbers just because I’ve been sharing them with the church the last few nights—in August of ’21, we were right around 1,900 people in worship when we set the goal. So we wanted to reach 5% of Sioux Falls, which at the time was 12,500 people.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Adam Weber — Again. 1,900 people, 12,500 people are this, again, I’m going to share this just because it’s pastors and I want it to be helpful. I usually don’t share this elsewhere.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Adam Weber — But you know away from non, we had We broke 5,000 in worship this last spring. One non-holiday Sunday, we were up over 5,600 people.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Adam Weber — So we set that. That, that 12-year goal. It’s just so fun to see it happening.

Rich Birch — That’s amazing. Yeah, you’re totally on track to that.

Adam Weber — And then… We really are. And ah with this new campus we’re pursuing, this new broadcast, I mean, it it will catapult us towards our goal, which is just awesome.

Adam Weber — So then what we do is, you know, we have a three-year goal, a one-year goal, and then these 90-day rocks. And we just, what’s it’s so good for someone like me. I get I’m the next fun, shiny thing I want to go do.

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — What Traction does is it helps me stay focused.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Adam Weber — Adam, you’re number one thing you want to tell people about Jesus. This is why this church exists. 100%. So those side things are fun, but we’re not going to do them because we are focused.

Adam Weber — And then what’s also nice is, you know you know, as a lead pastor, it’s often easy to get in martyr syndrome. I’m working harder than everybody else.

Rich Birch — Sure.

Adam Weber — No one else cares about Jesus as much as I care about them. I, you know, you’re tempted to micromanage. Well, the Traction has accountability built in the guts of what it is.

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — So what we do is we set in every 90 days, we have an offsite meeting for a half day where we, we lay out our current rocks that we’re just finishing and we grade them. A green, or a red. Was that successful or not? So there’s that built-in accountability. And then we say, okay, for this next 90 days, that starts in two weeks, what what do we want our rocks to be?

Adam Weber — So we lay them all out and then we pick them. So what are the top five or six things that we’re going to focus on? Yeah. Again, for me, I got all these shiny things.

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — But Adam, are they more important than those things? No. No, they’re not. And then so you pick your five or six rocks and then everybody except me gets to be the owner of a rock. And they, then you, so out of that meeting, you, Okay, here’s my goal for the next 90 days. And here are the benchmarks that I’m going to hit to reach that goal, that rock.

Adam Weber — And then every week there’s a weekly meeting. And at the start of the meeting, you go through each rock every Monday – on track or off track.

Rich Birch — Good.

Adam Weber — And if it’s on track, good to go. You don’t talk about the rock at all. And if it’s ah off track, according to the milestones that you set, you say, what do we need to do to get back on track then? Because we’ve said that that’s one of the top five things. And that is the process.

Adam Weber —And now as of this January, I’m not even in the weekly meeting anymore.

Rich Birch — Okay.

Adam Weber — So if it’s lead, you’re supposed to have that meeting lead by someone other than the visionary. They call it the integrator.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Adam Weber — And so I never led the meeting when I was in it. And now I’m not even in it anymore. And so that process has refined us and dialed us in. And here’s what’s been so fun to see at work, first off. And then the ownership. It’s just skyrocketed.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s cool.

Adam Weber — You know my team is more, they’re more boots on the ground than I am. And ah so it’s just been so exciting. It’s all about instead of, it’s all about focus. You know, water can’t really do much unfocused. But man, you if you get it in a pressure washer. Man, that thing can, it can cut stone…

Rich Birch — Yes, yes.

Adam Weber — …if you focus it enough. And that is the power of Traction.

Adam Weber — I feel like so many churches and leaders, just like me, have no focus. And so they’re doing a trillion things not very well instead of getting really, really dialed in. Well I just have to say one thing. What we did in the very first rocks is we said, should we stay multi-site? And I I was like we’re gonna take 90 days to decide that? Like can we just decide that in a meeting?

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — Like why, why? And again, at first it felt horrible to a go-getter like me.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Adam Weber — I’m like, we’re going to spend 90 days. And so one of the rocks was we’re going to interview 14 churches from across the country, similar to us in similar communities, just bigger and ask them about the strategy and whatever else.

Adam Weber — And that homework told us, do not go away from multi-site. What they said is multi-site works. Crappy multi-site doesn’t work though. And that’s what most churches do is crappy multi-site.

Adam Weber — And so they’re like, if you do good multi-site where every service is amazing regardless of what location. So it’s not just the broadcast that’s awesome. And then these other sites are what are terrible. And then you’re saying it doesn’t work. It’s like, well, it doesn’t work because it’s terrible. That was one of the initial things. And it it really taught me to like, if you go slower, you’ll actually go further.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Adam Weber — And that was the type of things that I needed to learn.

Rich Birch — Yeah that’s great. I know our friend Warren Bird’s coming out with there with a new study this fall on multisite. And I literally we were just talking about yesterday that one of the and I’m not preempting any of his numbers. But one of the the big findings is exactly that that there’s numbers backing up what you’re saying there.

Rich Birch — That it you know there’s this popular notion that like oh multi-state’s gone away. And the way he said it was, no, really what it is is it’s gone vertical. When you see what’s happening is there are churches like yours that are driving much deeper into multi-site and, you know, launching more campuses, getting better at it, going, you know, spending a lot more time on alignment and you know that sort of thing.

Adam Weber — Yes.

Rich Birch — And it’s and it’s having huge impact the impact. And I have seen some of the numbers, it’s just insane to see. So that’s interesting

Adam Weber — Oh, it’s well it’s it’s it’s scalable.

Rich Birch — Yes.

Adam Weber — What I what I love is that our campuses, people know who their pastor is.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Adam Weber — And and they’re not me.

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — You know, like it’s it’s the campus pastor.

Rich Birch — Well, and you can’t you can’t have a vision like 5,000, you can’t have a 5 % vision. with a single location.

Adam Weber — No!

Rich Birch — There isn’t a building big enough in you know in town to do that. You have to come up with some sort of multi-site thing that that does does that. So.

Adam Weber — It’s really it’s really it’s really incredible. So that’s great.

Rich Birch — Yeah that’s cool. Back to the 90 days so because I because I where I think some of this stuff falls down with churches is, yeah, we’re good at the like, we’re going to change the world. And we might even be okay at like this year, we’re going to focus on these three things. But then I like to call it the youth pastor on Tuesday problem. The like Tuesday afternoon, it’s like one o ‘clock in the afternoon, the youth pastor staring at the wall. And they’re like, I don’t know what I’m supposed to be working on right now. Like I, you know, I just don’t know. That’s where it starts to fall apart.

Rich Birch — So every 90 days, do you, I get that, like the team that works directly for you, they’re going to own those pieces. And then, but is there like a cascading that comes down, a communication that goes down? What does that look like?

Adam Weber — So cascading for sure. I mean, again, that’s something we weren’t good at. We would make decisions and then not tell anybody. So, so I mean, it’s just like, well, that’s unhelpful.

Rich Birch — And then be mad when they didn’t do it.

Adam Weber — Oh, a hundred percent.

Adam Weber — And so now what’s cool is our directors also have their own meeting. We call that the S10. And so they now have their own rocks. And sometimes they’re built off of past rocks from the their strategy team, but a lot of times they’re not.

Adam Weber — And so they’re they’re setting their own goals. And in a lot of it, it’s so it’s so it’s not some of it is so simple. What is our follow-up for first impressions? Like like what like when someone comes, what is our follow-up when someone wants to say they want to volunteer? I mean, it’s something it’s a lot of it is just systems.

Rich Birch — Right.

Adam Weber — And so for these 90 days, we’re going to work on this system. Again for Enneagram three. That sounds like horrible. A system? Why do why do we need a system?

Rich Birch — Why are we doing that?

Adam Weber — And so, ah so, so that the S10 group, but a lot of directors is due on their own rocks, which is which is critical. But that so that cascading is huge. And then here’s what’s so cool. We just had it this last week, ah the L10, so the strategy team presented their rocks. And said, hey, guys, you’ve maybe noticed over the last couple of weeks, we’ve been focusing on this and this. Here’s the full rock. And do you guys have any questions about it?

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Adam Weber — Yeah. Why why why do we have this rock?

Adam Weber — I mean, literally and anybody can ask and they do. And so like any questions on this rock. And and and so, so them even like, oh, it just brings so much clarity. Oh.

Adam Weber — That’s why we’re that’s why we’re doing this. That’s huge. And then one other thing I would say that’s been just gold and where I can’t wait to get the results from it. As a part of Traction, you do a yearly survey. So you do a survey and it’s very open-ended questions. You know what are two or three things that you love about Embrace? What are two or three things that you wish Embrace would address?

Adam Weber — I mean it’s very, and we encourage, if you’ve even thought about attending Embrace, it’s not like our our inner like people who love Embrace.

Rich Birch — Sure.

Adam Weber — It’s everybody.

Rich Birch — Sure.

Adam Weber — And they give very unfiltered anonymous feedback. And it’s and sometimes it’s brutal. What’s so cool is they just there’s such there’s trends that you can get. And it’s gold. If you want to continue loving people, serving people, caring for people.

Rich Birch — That’s good

Adam Weber — Something in for years that we undervalued at Embrace—we just never thought about it—was parking. And so it’s just like the the tighter the services, the more chaos, the better.

Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Adam Weber — Well, it’s like, ah then we hired a years ago, actually in 2018, we hired ah a guy from Eagle Brook in Minneapolis.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Adam Weber — Eagle Brook has been a huge blessing to us.

Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s a great church.

Adam Weber — I’m a big time Bob Merritt fan, Jason Strand fan, if you haven’t interviewed them, man, just incredible. But we brought him on and he’s like you guys realize your parking lot experience is horrible here, right?

Adam Weber — And it’s like, no, I’ve never even been in the parking lot. What are you talking about?

Adam Weber — He’s like, you realize that like dozens of cars are leaving because the parking lot… I’m like, no, they’re not. Their probably just going around the block. He’s like no they are leaving your church.

Adam Weber — Well again we so we I got a sneak peek. I just jumped in the survey thing to see some. t’s almost all parking, parking, parking, parking, parking.

Rich Birch — Wow.

Adam Weber — And so again, we’re like, what do we need to do?

Rich Birch — Yeah, we gotta fix that.

Adam Weber — So we’re looking at bringing in just a shuttle system for volunteers, like for staff and volunteers.

Rich Birch — That’s cool.

Adam Weber — Let’s park way way away, so it’s just been huge.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. Love it. Well, that’s been good. That’s a great kind of under the hood look at Traction. If you were talking to a church leader who was interested in like, hmm, we need to maybe take a little step closer, take take a next step in this, what would you suggest kind of a first couple steps would be for them to try to begin to build a system like this?

Adam Weber — I would say is go to your lead team first, or your board.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Adam Weber — Do we know anybody who implements Traction?

Adam Weber — Like, do we know anybody? And if they don’t, post it on your Facebook, Hey, this is really random. I’m wondering if there’s anybody in Sioux Falls, South Dakota who is an integrator? Like what would help like implement Traction.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.

Adam Weber — I would just love to take them out for coffee.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good

Adam Weber — That would be my initial thing.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Adam Weber — And just just begin to see if you can find. Because here’s what’s so cool. That person, similar to Mike Ritter, again, Mike doesn’t even attend my church. Mike just, like, he heard about what Embrace was, what God was doing through Embrace, and he’s like, man, I would I just want to be a part of it.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Adam Weber — And so what he did, he brought two of our lead team, he allowed, like they were in the room And then he kind of equipped them. And now those two guys lead the 90 day meetings for us.

Rich Birch — That’s great.

Adam Weber — And so and I feel like all three of them would say.

Adam Weber — It has made us feel like we’re so connected to the church and it’s given us so much purpose and whatever else. So you might just have a a business leader who is an implementer for Traction that has never served at your church. That’s like, Oh my gosh, I would love to help the church that way.

Rich Birch — Yeah, I’d love to be a part of that. Yeah, that’s so good. Great stuff. Well, this has been a great, great conversation. I really appreciate you coming on today.

Adam Weber — Oh.

Rich Birch — Adam, this has been fantastic any final words as we wrap up today’s episode?

Adam Weber — A couple of things. I just want to just give a shout out again to you. One of my, one of my favorite things was, uh, I can’t remember what it was about. Carey posted something. And then the next day you posted something that totally disagreed with Carey. Ha ha!

Rich Birch — Yes.

Adam Weber — I told Carey this too. I’m like, I just thought, you know, Carey is such a leading voice and you are as well, Rich.

Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah.

Adam Weber — And ah so I just, I just really got to honor you. And I love. As as pastors, we’re so spoiled by the both of you. And I thought it was so cool knowing that the both of you honor each other, and yet you disagreed. I was like, this is my favorite thing ever. I read both of those blog posts…

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Adam Weber — like 10, 15 times. So I just need to say thank you. The second thing I would say is I would just say to anybody in ministry, whether you’re full-time or you’re a business leader, in like just thanks for serving. And um if you need if you find yourself at a place of rock bottom, our God specializes in bringing dead things back to life.

Rich Birch — So good.

Adam Weber — And that’s not just something that you and I can preach on a Sunday morning. It’s something that God can do in our lives as well.

Rich Birch — So true.

Adam Weber — Sometimes we get to be on the receiving end of that. So he can do that in our own personal lives if we’ve had a moral failure even, or whatever it looks like, but he can also do that in our church.

Adam Weber — And so you might say like, gosh, my my ministry is dead. Or my church just feels dead or whatever. That’s God’s specialty.

Rich Birch — That’s so good.

Adam Weber — And so I would just encourage you just to keep going. Deal with the things inside of you that need to be dealt with as well, For the sake of your own soul. for the sake of your your spouse, your kids, for the sake of your ministry. Do the do the hard work because it’s worth it.

Rich Birch — That’s so good

Adam Weber — It’s a, I always say self-awareness feels like your worst enemy, but it’s actually your best friend. And so pursue it, pursue it, pursue it.

Rich Birch — That’s a great place to end. If people want to track with you or with the church, where do we want to send them online?

Adam Weber — Yeah, probably the best place is either adamweber.com or Instagram @adamaweber. And then the church is iamembrace.com. We’re probably most active on Instagram, our website as well. Yeah. Man, that would be it.

Rich Birch — That’s great. Thanks so much for being here today. I appreciate that.

Adam Weber — Yes, thank you.