Everyone Says Young People Don’t Give. This Church Proves Otherwise with Brian Davis

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Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We’re talking with Brian Davis, lead pastor of Plaza Church in Charlotte, North Carolina. Plaza was replanted in 2021 with about 40 people and has since grown to roughly 400, with an average congregation age of 28. The church’s mission is to make disciples who share and show the gospel.

Why do some churches struggle to develop generous people, especially among younger generations? What if generosity isn’t primarily a funding issue but a discipleship issue? Tune in as Brian shares how Plaza Church teaches generosity, creates rhythms of gratitude, and helps young believers put their faith into practice in tangible ways.

• Focus on obedience-based discipleship. // Spiritual maturity isn’t measured simply by how much someone knows but by how faithfully they obey what they know. Biblical knowledge matters, but information alone doesn’t produce transformation. At Plaza, discipleship focuses on putting truth into practice. Generosity becomes one tangible way believers learn to trust God and bring another area of their lives under the lordship of Jesus.
• Connect generosity to spiritual formation. // Money touches security, priorities, control, and future plans, which makes giving a powerful discipleship practice. At Plaza Church they communicate that Christians aren’t only concerned about their standard of living; they should also consider their standard of giving. Learning to give can counter selfishness and help believers practically trust God alongside real concerns such as rent, debt, careers, and housing.
• Tell stories instead of only sharing numbers. // Brian has found that younger generations respond strongly to stories showing what generosity actually accomplishes. He shares the story of buying a study Bible for a newly baptized single mother and then telling the congregation that their giving made it possible. Connecting generosity to changed lives helps people see that their giving is participating directly in ministry rather than simply filling a budget.
• Make generosity part of the regular diet. // Plaza doesn’t wait until the church is behind budget to talk about money. Generosity appears naturally in preaching whenever the biblical text creates an opportunity. During the church’s membership experience Brian teaches a simple framework: give, save, live. Christians give first to honor God, save to be wise, and live on the rest with contentment.
• End every service with gratitude. // Plaza closes each worship service with a giving moment, but it isn’t primarily an appeal for money. Instead, leaders celebrate what generosity accomplished that week—feeding neighbors, providing childcare, supporting ministries, or helping people take spiritual next steps. Brian wants the final words people hear before leaving to communicate celebration and gratitude: thank you for helping make this ministry possible.
• Create systems for finding the stories. // Finding 52 generosity stories each year requires intentionality. Plaza’s staff begins Monday meetings by asking, “What did God do yesterday?” Those conversations surface stories from baptisms, kids ministry, membership classes, outreach, and other areas. The giving moment is then planned intentionally in the service run sheet so it feels thoughtful rather than improvised.
• Remember that clarity is kindness. // Pastors sometimes become frustrated that people don’t give while never clearly inviting them to do so. Brian encourages leaders to own their responsibility rather than blaming the congregation. If generosity is genuinely part of discipleship, leaders should talk about it confidently and plainly. The goal is to want something for people, not simply something from them.
• Thank people when they give. // Brian sends a personal card to every first-time giver and personally calls people who make unusually large gifts. Rather than simply thanking them, he asks what God is doing in their heart that prompted the gift. Those conversations often reveal meaningful stories that can later encourage the wider church and deepen pastoral relationships.
• Use ongoing communication to reinforce generosity. // Plaza sends quarterly giving statements with a letter celebrating what God has done and casting vision for the coming quarter. Every church member receives one, even if their giving total is zero. Combined with weekly giving moments, these rhythms keep generosity connected to discipleship, accountability, vision, and gratitude rather than reducing it to an annual tax receipt.

To learn more about Brian Davis and Plaza Church, visit plazachurch.org or connect with Brian on Instagram at @bdavis421.

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Episode Transcript

Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to this week’s unSeminary podcast. So glad that you have decided to lean into today’s episode. I know you’re in for a treat today. What we’re talking about, I think, is either number one or number two of the questions I get over the years. I know that there are people asking the things that we’re going to talk about today and really excited to have a guest who has really unlocked some great learnings for all of us, the kind of thing that could help push our our ministries forward.

Rich Birch — Excited to have Brian Davis with us. He is the lead pastor of Plaza Church in the Noda neighborhood of Uptown Charlotte in North Carolina. It was founded in 1938 as Friendly Tabernacle Baptist Church, which is a fantastic name.

Brian Davis — That’s a great name.

Rich Birch — Friendly Tabernacle as opposed to the Angry Tabernacle across town. Plaza was replanted in 2021 with 40 people and a budget of $90,000. Five years later the church is around 400 and a 1.25 million dollar budget. Normally we don’t lead with those kind of numbers but you’ll see in a minute why that’s important. The average age of the congregation is 28. Plaza’s mission is to make disciples who share and show the gospel. Brian, welcome to the show. So glad you’re here, sir.

Brian Davis — Man, thank you so much. It’s an honor to be on the podcast. Super grateful, and to be honest, a little insecure. You know, the the last episode I listened to, you had a pastor on and you were like, he has six campuses. And I’m like. We have six staff members. Hope I can be helpful.

Rich Birch — No, this will be great. Come on. You’re going to be super helpful. And I know there’s lots of leaders, like I said, struggling with this. Before we jump in, why don’t you tell us a little bit about the church, kind of maybe paint the picture of NoDa for someone who’s never been to Charlotte. Give us a kind of ah the landscape of the community you serve in and tell us about the church.

Brian Davis — Yeah, so NoDa is Charlotte’s Arts District.

Rich Birch — Nice.

Brian Davis — If people are trying to reach their young adults, a lot of people are building careers. They’re figuring out what their life is going to look like. I tell people all the time that I have not met many atheists. But I’ve met a lot of people who used to go to church. But they had a bad experience with the pastor or a church or a Christian. And so that’s kind of why we say our mission is to make disciples who share and show the gospel.

Brian Davis — Because many people in NoDa have heard the gospel someone shared it with them but they haven’t really seen the implications of the gospel lived out. And so that’s kind of the goal of the church.

Brian Davis — We say that we are we have a James 1 vision. We want to be doers of the word. And we just believe that when people interact with legit real Jesus-following, bible believing Christian, there’s something compelling about that.

Rich Birch — So true.

Brian Davis — We’ve mentioned talk to people before, hey, we will be the nicest people you’ve ever disagreed with. You know?

Rich Birch — That’s great.

Brian Davis — So yeah, that’s kind of a picture of NoDa and and Plaza.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so cool. That’s great. Now I know a bit of your story here. I wish we could dive deep into the replant because I feel like there’s probably a ton there. But we’re going to get to kind of some of the generosity stuff. That’s really we want to focus on today’s conversation. But maybe take us back to 2021 and give us kind of an overview of the relaunch and kind of what did that look like and what led to that? And then we’ll talk about where we are today.

Brian Davis — Sure. Yeah. So I was the college pastor at Hickory Grove Baptist Church. And my pastor was Clint Presley. My wife and I began praying about starting a church in uptown And then, I kid you not, like the next week Clint called into his office and he said, hey, some church contacted me. They’re called Plaza Baptist Church, and it’s in NoDa, and they’re looking for a pastor. They have like 15 people. and they’re they’re aging.

Brian Davis — And so that got the ball rolling. And so we just came in, being very clear what we wanted to do. We wanted this to be a picture of the resurrection…

Rich Birch — So good.

Brian Davis — …that this church was once dead, and we want to see it alive again. And that was going to take a lot of change. And so we wanted to not do a whole, you know, cat and mouse where we come in and we say, we won’t change anything and then change things. We are just very clear. We are coming to change things. And I remember Clint Presley, my my pastor, called a church meeting at Plaza. This is hilarious. So 15 people on Sunday. He called a church meeting. 80 people show up.

Rich Birch — Classic.

Brian Davis — Like who are you people? Where are you people?

Rich Birch — Yes.

Brian Davis — Anyway. 80 people show up. And then Clint gives this, like great speech. He said this church was founded in 1938. You can see a hundred years from where you’re standing. But you’re never going to get there unless you embrace change.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Brian Davis — And that young man right there, he represents change. And so from that, they voted. And all 15 members voted me in.

Rich Birch — Nice.

Brian Davis — And we started we had a team of about 30 from our previous church came over to relaunch Plaza and then just kind of hit the ground running. And we inherited a church building that needed attention, maintenance, aesthetics.

Brian Davis — I remember after a service early on, a visitor came up to me and he said, I’ve never been in a place so alive and yet so decrepit. That’s the most backhanded compliment I’ve ever heard in my life.

Rich Birch — Yeah, you’re like… Thank you. Maybe.

Brian Davis — Yeah, exactly. What do you what do you do with that? So um but yeah, that’s kind of what it started off with just…

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Brian Davis — …40 people or so…

Rich Birch — Yep.

Brian Davis — …trusting that God could make these bones live.

Rich Birch — Right. And now fast forward today. You know give us a picture if if we were to come on Sunday what’s it look like, give us a sense of uh you know of of what’s going on.

Brian Davis — Yeah, I think you’re going to find, like you know a lot of young people. We run two services. We have approximately 1 million babies. Give or take, you know.

Rich Birch — Give or take. Lead pastor numbers.

Brian Davis — So, yeah, that’s right. But you’re going to see a lot of people who love the word of God, who love worship, who love each other, and they want other people. So their friends, their their classmates, their neighbors, co-workers they want them to experience what they’re experiencing at Plaza.

Rich Birch — Okay, very cool. The two things I want to highlight for folks that are listening in, you’re you’re too good of a Christian, so you won’t say it like this, but like a part of what we want to learn from here is., from what I can tell, your church’s per capita giving is like 40% higher than it it it than we would anticipate.

Brian Davis — Sure.

Rich Birch — So there’s something happening there that you’re doing that is that is correct and right. And we want to learn from that what we can do. And the thing that also grabs my attention is the age of your church, that you have a lot of young people. And there’s this popular notion out there that young people don’t give. And so ah setting that tension up as a backdrop, I really want to kind of unpack that. Obviously, a lot of what you’ve been doing over these years, you mentioned it on the the front end, a part of what you’re doing, obviously, is reaching people who are either de-churched, walked away from church or coming back, you’re trying to disciple them, help them back into the faith, you know brand new believers. What have you learned about, you know, how to help young Christians actually grow? Why don’t we start it there?

Brian Davis — Yeah, I think what I’ve learned is that people grow when they put what they believe into practice.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Brian Davis — But it is we don’t believe in knowledge-based discipleship. We believe in obedience-based discipleship, meaning you’re not as mature as what you know. You’re as mature as what you obey.

Brian Davis — And so you say it to people and you’ll watch their minds just like explode because like, wait, that means the person who’s been in church for 50 years who knows, you know the gospel of Matthew like the back of his hand but is not a forgiving person or a kind person, that means the the the new believer who’s applying what they’ve been learning is growing in maturity.

Brian Davis — And so I think pushing back against the notion that just because you have facts and information. like that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re obeying it and you’re walking properly.

Rich Birch — Right.

Brian Davis — And so I think just‚ you know, I say it all the time. It’s like I’m glad you know the Greek word for grace and you named your daughter Charis, right?

Rich Birch — That’s great.

Brian Davis — But can you forgive her when she messes up? Like that’s what grace actually is.

Rich Birch — Oh so good, dude.

Brian Davis — And so while, I don’t think giving is the only driver of maturity, I think we can often underestimate it. You know I think a young christian learning to give is practicing trust in God in a very tangible way. Yeah, I think, you know, nothing mimics God like money. Money touches your security, your priorities, your plans, your sense of control. So when someone starts bringing their finances under the lordship of Jesus, it just touches every other area of their life, you know.

Rich Birch — Why don’t we double click on that? Unpack that a little bit more, because I think there is a popular notion out there—and it’s probably, well, I think it is a misnomer—that particularly folks that are early in their faith, it’s like, oh, well, we don’t want to overwhelm them with the money thing. Like we don’t, you know, and if anything we might avoid talking about these things, is like ah we don’t want to offend people.

Rich Birch — In fact there was actually a school of thought for a long time that said that, which we know it’s just a bad idea. But but kind of unpack that a little bit more, the connection, particularly for folks that you’ve seen that are early in their faith journey, how generosity connects to that and might actually even accelerate their discipleship.

Brian Davis — Yeah, that’s a great question, man. I think that Jesus connects our treasure and our hearts. And um that makes sense to me because money is one of the places where we can see what we actually trust. You know? It is easy to tell.

Brian Davis — So a typical young adult—so Gen Z, Millennial—may be thinking about rent, debt, career, buying a house. And those are legit real concerns. But giving asks them to consider God’s purpose alongside of those things. And so we use the language that Christians are not just concerned about their standard of living. They’re also concerned about their standard of giving.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Brian Davis — And I think when you have new believers who were excited about Jesus, there is this sense of like well what do I do? And so that’s where I’ve just found clarity is kindness. Tell people what you want them to do.

Brian Davis — And also with younger believers—and with all of us, honestly—I think that giving helps us all be less selfish To borrow a John Mark Comer phrase it counterforms your heart away from the idolatry of self. And so, yeah, we do this a lot through telling stories of what their generosity is actually accomplishing.

Rich Birch — So good.

Brian Davis — And what we found is Gen Z’s and, you know Millennials, they seem to be, to me at least, motivated by stories more so than stats. And so, for example, well, we we told the story before, there was a new believer, single mom came to our church and she got saved, got baptized. And then I noticed when I was preaching, she was like following the Bible on her phone. Which is fine. But then ah it kept happening for months. And I thought to myself, I don’t think she actually owns a Bible.

Rich Birch — Right.

Brian Davis — Which, why would she? She just got saved, you know?

Rich Birch — Right.

Brian Davis — And so I go up to her and I say, hey, do you have a Bible? And she says, on my phone, it’s an app on my phone. I go, oh, no, no, no. You need like a real legit study bible with like the answers at the bottom of the pages you know.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Brian Davis — And she’s like, well, tell me which one to get. I said well let me go back and I’ll like recommend one. Go back to my office and I just bought her a Bible with a church credit card. And the next Sunday, I remember giving her this Bible. I wish you could like see the way she held it to her chest. And she gets emotional and I get emotional. And she says, thank you. And for whatever reason, I said, Don’t thank me. Thank everybody who gave last month.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Brian Davis — And I told the church that story and I said, guys, if you gave last month. You help pay for that for her first Bible, and she’s going to encounter God in that Bible, and she’s going to teach her daughter about Jesus using that Bible. Guys, thank you for being a generous church.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. I love it.

Brian Davis — Way more effective than, hey, we’re we’re running behind budget…

Rich Birch — Right.

Brian Davis — …this month. you know?

Rich Birch — Right. Well, yeah, that that leads me to that idea. I was thinking exactly that while you were talking there. Too many of us, the only time we talk about…

Brian Davis — That’s right.

Rich Birch — money stuff is like, you know—and this is a good time of year. We’re coming into the fall here. People are running X percentage behind as they come into you know fourth quarter. They’re like, ah, gosh, we’re we’re running 15% behind. We need to close the gap on the budget.—and so we start talking about it then, ah which is a bad practice.

Brian Davis — Yes.

Rich Birch — How do we what are some rhythms of you talking about this at Plaza? Where does it come up on kind of the normal rhythm of what you do as a church?

Brian Davis — Yeah, I think it is part of the diet that they’re getting theologically. And so uh if the text I’m in gives me a window I’m talk I’m going to talk about generosity as an application point just like I would talk about forgiveness, idolatry of career, lust – it’s just part of the regular diet of our preaching. And so we would say we drip it in sermons, but we pour it at our new membership class, which is called the Weekender.

Rich Birch — Okay.

Brian Davis — And so generosity gets its own session. It’s brief. We don’t unpack a biblical theology of money. You know, we we teach give, save, live. And so we begin, I think it’s important, some people, many people can feel uncomfortable as soon as you start talking about money in a church setting. What we do—maybe we’ll get into this a little bit later—we try to lead with gratitude.

Brian Davis — And so me or whoever’s teaching that that session—usually it’s me—we’ll say, hey, guys, before we we get in. I just want to say some of you have been giving generously for years. And because of you. Churches were planted. Pastors like me got to go to seminary for a certain amount off. Because of you, missionaries were sent, and maybe no one’s ever thanked you. I want to say God saw that and he sees that and and I thank you.

Rich Birch — So good.

Brian Davis — And so just. Those of you who have been giving generously for years, thank you. All right, let’s get into this session.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.

Brian Davis — Like that just takes all the tensionout of the room.

Rich Birch — Yes. Yes.

Brian Davis — So we do that and then we just keep it real simple. We read the story of the rich young ruler. And we say, that’s a sad story. He missed out on Jesus because he loved money. And then we read Jesus and Zacchaeus and we say, that’s a great story. He got Jesus and then got generous, you know.

Brian Davis — Then it’s really practical. We were like, sign up for recurring giving. And we we double-click on recurring, recurring automatic giving. I’ll say, how many of you raise your hand if your car payment is automated? Raise your hand if your mortgage is automated. How about your energy bill? How many of you your employer puts your paychecks and it’s it’s automated? How would you feel if your employer said, I’ll pay you when I pay you?

Brian Davis — So what I’m saying, guys, is you all secretly like automation. And it helps us budget. Because I don’t like going to a staff member and saying I think we can pay you next month. You know?

Rich Birch — Right. I’m pretty sure.

Brian Davis — It allows us to budget, you know?

Rich Birch — Right.

Brian Davis — And so because your life, you already have a lot of automation in your life. Here’s one other thing you can automate and it is for the glory of God.

Brian Davis — So those are two two things, two areas. The last area where we have it as a regular rhythm, we end every service with a giving moment. And by that, we’re not asking for money, although I’m not against that. We’re celebrating what their generosity has done. And so that’s where I’ll share a story like the new believer got a bible. That’s where I’ll share a story about, hey guys, did you know that across the street there’s government subsidized housing. Yesterday, we just fed 200 people. You know how we we did that?

Rich Birch — That’s amazing.

Brian Davis — We did that because you guys are so generous. You’ve been giving to our our food pantry. Or like, hey, we had a Weekender. We had 25 people who want to join this church. We fed them breakfast. We fed them lunch. We paid for their childcare. We did that because you guys are a generous church. And so we end every service saying thank you and showing what their generosity accomplished like that previous week.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. I’d love to double click on the the the giving moment. Because this is one of those behaviors that people who are listening in like I’ve said to so many churches, like I’m like, you’ve got to add this to what you do. And and they’re like, oh, I’m not sure we could do that every week. I couldn’t find a story every week. There’s no way I could.

Rich Birch — And, you know, I try to give them some my ideas to kind of get the ball rolling. But maybe unpack it a little bit more. Give us a sense of you gave us a couple examples there. How do you think about it from like a framework? What are the kind of stories you’re looking for? And then how do you keep those fresh? How are you finding 52 you know every year 51 or however many weekends you do? How do you keep on top of that?

Brian Davis — Yeah, I think you have to just be aware of of some of what God is doing in your church. And that could be through you interacting with the sheep. It could be really, it it’s for us, it’s our staff team. And we’re around a table, and that’s part of a meeting. Hey, what did God do this week? Or what what do we what do we have coming up next week? You know, it’s just part of the conversation.

Brian Davis — We start every Monday morning as a staff at the standing meeting and it’s five minutes long and all it’s called “What did God do yesterday?”

Rich Birch — Oh, nice.

Brian Davis — And so we just celebrate what God did. And so I would say those stories are there. um And you probably have some rhythms, whether it’s, you know, a new membership class.

Rich Birch — Right.

Brian Davis — Maybe it’s like move up Sunday.

Rich Birch — Right.

Brian Davis — Maybe it’s baptism. You can connect whatever God is doing in your church, somehow, someway, that is probably connected to generosity.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.

Brian Davis — It costs something.

Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s good.

Brian Davis — You know?

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Yeah.

Brian Davis — So yeah, I would just say it requires you to think about it.

Rich Birch — Student retreats. There’s all kinds of stuff like new, you know, curriculum.

Brian Davis — Oh my goodness, yes.

Rich Birch — There’s a lot, there’s lots of things once you get thinking about it. And does that, so this is a super like in the weeds questio, but that the the giving moment do you end up does that get like flagged in your run sheet or whatever Planning Center whatever you use on that…

Brian Davis — Yep.

Rich Birch — …as like uh in the same way that like you would you plan a couple different songs and there you plan those out the same with the giving moment, or so just say giving moment and then somebody gets up there or you you actually think about it ahead of time.

Brian Davis — Oh, yeah, we think about it ahead of time. Yeah, so it’s in Planning Center in services. And whoever’s doing that usually it’s it’s our groups pastor.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Brian Davis — We have thought very carefully about that. And they’ll put notes in that little section on Planning Center what the giving moment is. We usually have a screen for it. So it shows intentionality.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Brian Davis — But yeah, people can tell, oh, they they thought about this before they said it.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. And what’s your thinking on having it at the end of the service? What’s the that’s the thought there?

Brian Davis — Yes, that’s a I love that question. We want to end with celebration.

Rich Birch — Okay, yes. Good.

Brian Davis — Celebration and gratitude.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Brian Davis — We’ve just sang a whole bunch of songs. I just preached my heart out. We have we try to have a culture of response. So you’re coming you’re you’re praying with people. You’re responding to the word of God. We sing one more song. I’m going to say, hey guys, before we leave there’s one more thing we got to tell you about. And it’s celebratory. And we end by saying thank you to our church.

Rich Birch — Yeah. That’s good.

Brian Davis — What I think that does is it, I mean, shows it’s modeling gratitude. But I think our people have felt cared for in that. They felt seen.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Brian Davis — I think when you talk about generosity, the people who are generous feel so encouraged. And maybe after the week they’ve just had, maybe they fought with their spouse and fought with their kids. They got some pat on the back, you know. That just does wonders for a lot of people. So yeah we we want to put at the end that we end with celebration. And the last thing we say to our churches. Thank you. All right, Plaza, you are sent.

Rich Birch — You know, that’s so good. I love it. You know, maybe five minutes ago, you you said something that stood out to me, I want to loop back on you talked about, you got to tell your people what you want them to do, like, be just really clear on that.

Brian Davis — That’s right. Yes.

Rich Birch — Give me some examples of how you think maybe we miss it on this piece that we’re not we get fuzzy, or we were not clear enough. And you know, hey, this is an example you gave one. I thought the example you gave about the Weekender, like being, you know, about automate the important kind of thing. That’s a really great example. Any other, other areas where you feel like, Hey, this is ah know ah an area where I just think we should be clear as churches.

Brian Davis — Yeah. Yeah. Clarity is kindness. And that’s an overused phrase, but clarity is kindness. And I think about I’ll have a couple sitting in my office. We’re doing marriage counseling. And one or the other will be upset that their spouse didn’t do something that they expect them to do. And then I’ll say, did you ask them to do that? Did you ever communicate your expectation to them? No. Right.

Rich Birch — Yes, right.

Brian Davis — And I’m like well you can’t be too upset, but then again I meet a lot of pastors who are upset that their people don’t give. And I remember I think I heard this from, was it Craig Groeschel—I don’t remember—but he said you should never say, my people don’t XYZ. So my people don’t serve. My people don’t give. Instead you must say, I have not led my people to give.

Rich Birch — That’s so true. Yeah.

Brian Davis — And so you have to own it. You have to be clear. And I think you have to find a way to talk about money without feeling weird or weak. People feel weird when you feel weird. And so you know, I think you check your heart. I think you recognize that this is a discipleship issue. You want something for them not just from them.

Brian Davis — A friend of mine he said, if while talking about money, you feel like a slimy snake salesman, maybe you are one.

Rich Birch — Trust your feelings.

Brian Davis — Yeah.

Rich Birch — Yeah exactly.

Brian Davis — And it’s like that’s a great place to repent that’s a great place to replace it with a biblical view of generosity and discipleship…

Rich Birch — That’s so good.

Brian Davis — …and what it means for your people and their spiritual growth and then you get confident and what the scriptures say, and you say that with a smile and a spine.

Rich Birch — Yeah. That’s good. I like it. I like it. So take me through now. So if I donate to Plaza and I give for the first time. What do you do on that front? How do you acknowledge donors? Are are you doing any work on that front to try to you know you know reinforce the good behavior that’s there? What does that look like for you guys?

Brian Davis — Yeah, absolutely. I think like I said before, generosity and gratitude go together. And so what we’ll do is I’ll write a card through every first time giver.

Brian Davis — In the early days, it was a handwritten card.

Rich Birch — Yes.

Brian Davis — Now, by the grace of God, there’s so many that I would just get carpal tunnel. And so now our ops director brings me a card, the cards that have the the letter already typed in there. I had to sign it. You know and then she’ll send it she’ll mail it off. It’s a simple, it’s like, hey, thank you for your generosity. You’re giving is helping us go further faster. May God bless you. Pastor Brian, you know.

Rich Birch — So good.

Brian Davis — So it’s a small way of saying thank you, but also if if someone gives a donation over a certain number, so a large don’t donation, like an unusually large number. We’ll get flagged about it, and then I will pick up my phone and call them.

Brian Davis — Like immediately. So this is like thousands and thousands of dollar donation that they they gave.

Rich Birch — Yes. Yeah.

Brian Davis — And I usually will say, hey, our system just flagged that you gave a large sum of money. Was that a mistake? And then I’ll say, hey. Thank you. That was a extremely generous. I always ask this: What is God doing in your heart for you to give a gift like that?

Rich Birch — That’s a great question.

Brian Davis — And every single time we get an awesome, epic story that we can share, you know.

Rich Birch — That’s so good.

Brian Davis — And we share it without their name, obviously.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Brian Davis — But it’s, and every single time, it’s always a great story. It’s like, oh, well, you know, I love this church. And my my dad passed away and left me an inheritance. I wanted to tithe the inheritance. Or, you know, we’re we’re getting, I just got engaged. And you guys doing our premarital counseling. And we just feel so helped by the elders of this church that we just wanted to give a big donation. Thank you. One time it was, I joke it was, a it was a guilt offering someone gave.

Rich Birch — Right.

Brian Davis — So I called this woman and she goes, yeah, I need to meet with you and and confess something. And so I was like, okay. And so, so my my my point is: Generosity, gratitude also helps you do ministry, and as a response to the ministry that you’ve done for people.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Yeah, friend for years, I was on staff, was an executive pastor at Liquor Church, a church of New Jersey. And Tim, our lead guy, whenever he talked about um giving stuff, which was fairly regularly, ah he would always throw in a line there about Like. Hey, like, and this is a great time of year to catch up. Like maybe you have been behind on that this you know and and you haven’t and that’s totally fine. this is

Rich Birch — And I remember like the first time I heard him say that, I kind of was like, oh, man. Like that’s and and he says it I even the way I said it there it’s he you know he’s a professional communicator, like you, there was no no guilt involved.

Brian Davis — Yes, of course.

Rich Birch — It was just like hey I’m trying to I’m coming to your corner. And sure enough, every time he said that we would have somebody do this, who, you know, that’s what reminded me what you’d you’d said there was it was like.
somebody said, listen, you know what? The Lord’s been talking to me about this, and I have not been faithful to the tithe…

Brian Davis — That’s right.

Rich Birch — …and I need to I need and I and I can catch up…

Brian Davis — That’s right.

Rich Birch — …which lots of people can’t, but I can catch up, and so I am. And thank you for that and then you know the freedom that brings to somebody just amazing.

Brian Davis — Absolutely.

Rich Birch — I thought that was great. Now tell me about if I’m giving regularly, so I’ve automated the important, I’m giving consistently throughout the year at at Plaza. Is there anything kind of ongoing? Maybe I don’t give like a large gift. Is there anything any kind of communication that you have with us above just the here’s your tax receipt, you know, kind of thing?

Brian Davis — Yeah.

Rich Birch — What’s that look like?

Brian Davis — Yeah, I mean, so outside of the giving moment, every Sunday you’re hearing about what your giving is doing. We do quarterly giving statements.

Rich Birch — Yep.

Brian Davis — I tell people. I do quarterly giving statements, the same reason why I do quarterly staff evals. I don’t do annual. It’s like, hey, staff member, you’ve been terrible at your job for 11 months.

Rich Birch — Sure.

Brian Davis — They’re like, could you have told me sooner? The same thing goes for giving statements. And so every quarter, what they’re going to get is first page is a letter from me, and it’s thanking them for the generosity. It’s sharing more things, kind of the top giving moments of the previous quarter.

Brian Davis — Hey, we had Plaza Kids Week, and we had however many hundred kids show up. We had Easter. Oh, we had to have, like, all these services, and the parking lot was full. Whatever. We’re celebrating what God did in the previous quarter. I’m casting vision for what’s coming up in the next quarter, you know. Maybe it’s, I don’t know, it’s it’s summer. It’s some mission trip we’re going. We’re going to Kuala Lumpur or whatever it is. Christmas is coming up.

Brian Davis — And then it says attached is your quarterly giving statement and some language along the line of thank you for your your your generosity. Please prayerfully consider whatever. You know And the next page is your giving statement. And here’s the thing.

Brian Davis — Everyone who gives everyone who has has given gets that. Plus every single church member gets that, even if they haven’t given anything.

Rich Birch — Oh wow.

Brian Davis — And so that’s counter vision. You know?

Rich Birch — Yes.

Brian Davis — Vision is like, here’s where we’re going. Here’s here’s what’s what’s ah so great. Counter vision is and and here’s what it looks like if you don’t if you don’t obey in this.

Brian Davis — And now when so years ago we did a big building campaign to renovate the sanctuary. And we said if this is your home, we want you to help. And I told them, Look, guys, here are the plans. New stage. New lights, new carpet, new chairs, new paint. Everything’s different. We’re putting we’re taking these walls down whatever you get that the idea.

Brian Davis — And I said, here’s what I don’t want for some of you. What I don’t want for some of you is in 12 to 18 months, you walk in to the new sanctuary for the first time and it’s celebratory…

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Brian Davis — …and we’re all doing our best Owen Wilson impression. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow.

Rich Birch — That’s funny.

Brian Davis — But then… But then… you you look at your spouse and you both have the same thought, This is our home, but we didn’t help.

Rich Birch — That’s good. That’s good.

Brian Davis — Like I don’t want that for you. And so yeah so the question of ah What were the rhythms? It’s going to be a quarterly giving statement, casting vision, and then every Sunday, here’s what your giving did.

Rich Birch — I love that. Again, friends. These are the kinds of things that that we coach people as best practices. You should go and do likewise. This is fantastic.

Rich Birch — On the so if I’m a member of the church, so that those are people who have raised their hand and somehow to say, yes, I’m a member of Plaza and I’m getting a quarterly statement. I don’t give anything. So what shows up on, is it literally like Rich Birch zero year to date?

Brian Davis — Zero. Zero.

Rich Birch — Wow, dude, that’s impressive. So what I know the answer to this question, what percentage of your of your members give? I think it’s a high number, if I remember you sharing.

Brian Davis — Yeah, I believe it’s 82 or 83 percent.

Rich Birch — Okay.

Rich Birch — That’s that’s impressive. That’s that’s amazing. Have you ever had any pushback on that on the zero statement or no? People just like that because they understand that they didn’t give. You’ve done a lot of appreciation. That’s like one area where you’ve asked for a bit of it’s like an accountability kind of piece.

Brian Davis — It is accountability. Yeah. No, we’ve had no pushback. Again, people who are generous. actually like. when you talk about generosity.

Rich Birch — Yes, that’s true.

Brian Davis — Because it’s something that they’re doing well. I don’t get offended when you tell me that I’m being a good parent.

Rich Birch — Yes, that’s true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Yes, yes.

Brian Davis — You know, um and so. The only people who would pushback would probably be the people who are are not giving not giving generously. But if they are pushing back, I have not heard it. Part of it is like if you’re at a church, it’s part of the the diet of our preaching.

Rich Birch — Yes.

Brian Davis — It’s we’re sharing and showing the gospel. James 1, be doers of the word. It’s just so part of the air we breathe that you obey…

Rich Birch — Yes. Yes.

Brian Davis — …you know, that it’s going to be hard to push back.

Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah, that’s good. That’s good. In, yeah, in the context of all of that, that’s probably not the place you start. But in the context of all of those other pieces, you can see how that fits and makes sense makes total sense for sure. And you know, I also thinkwe can’t lose sight of the fact that that’s going to be close to 100% of the churches that people are listening in from, you know, the people that we’re serving are the rich young rulers of our day.

Brian Davis — Yes.

Rich Birch — You know, we people there are forces that would like to take their money that are not of God and they’re they’re in a battle over this stuff. And you know not being clear about that can actually It hurt them.

Brian Davis — Absolutely. Absolutely.

Rich Birch — And so, you know, I think that’s being super clear is a good thing.

Rich Birch — So let’s say we’re a pastors listening in and they’re like, man, we haven’t done any of this stuff. Like we’re, we you know, they winced when I was like, we only communicate, you know for the tax receipt and they never talk about it on the weekend, and they’re like oh you can’t talk to new people about it. They all those stereotypes they hold on to. What would be some of the first steps the first moves that you would recommend ah that a church makes on this front?

Brian Davis — Yeah, so a church or a pastor. Their pastor who barely talks about money or doesn’t talk about it at all. My answer might surprise you. I think you should start with an apology.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Brian Davis — I’m serious. Yeah, I did this with serving. So we ran a report and found that only 33% of our members were were serving which is hilarious. 83% are giving. Right?

Rich Birch — Right. That’s funny.

Brian Davis — 33% were serving.

Rich Birch — Right.

Brian Davis — And I got in the pulpit and I said, hey, we ran this report. Here’s what it told me. Um, Guys. I have not done a good job leading you in serving.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Brian Davis — I have seen serving as a means to an end. I wanted something from you instead of for you. And guys, I’m sorry. That’s not how you lead people. That’s not how you should shepherd people. And so moving forward I’m going to celebrate it more. I’m also giving the weekender serve talk. Like I’m not going to do that anymore. I’m giving it to one of our lay elders who is way more passionate about serving than I am.

Rich Birch — Right.

Brian Davis — And so again, I’m sorry, but we are going to start talking about this more. So I’d begin with an apology. you know.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Brian Davis — I think you own own it. Tell people why you haven’t talked about it. Maybe it was fear. Maybe it was hypocrisy. Maybe it wasn’t on your mind, you know, but Jesus talks about generosity. The Bible talks about generosity. And so we’re going to talk about generosity.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. I love that. Adjacent idea to that from from my seat is o start with your generosity and your team’s generosity, and because people can smell a mile away when you’re trying to just sell them on something that you’re not actually engaged in as as a…

Brian Davis — That’s right.

Rich Birch — …as a leader and um you know it’s like the part we don’t like to talk about but oftentimes I have found that there’s a connection between leaders who don’t want to talk about generosity and leaders who are not generous themselves.

Brian Davis — Yep. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Absolutely.

Like those two things are related to each other. Again I said that. Brian didn’t say that so think good things about him, bad things about uh about me.

Rich Birch — Well, this has been super helpful. this This has been great. Any kind of parting words, any final things you’d love for us to to think about as ah you know as we’re wrapping up today’s conversation?

Brian Davis — Yeah, man, I think that I just encourage people to develop really good clear sticky language. And if you don’t have any, just steal some. I mean, there’s just you don’t got to reinvent the wheel, you know.

Rich Birch — True.

Brian Davis — And so for us, we use language like give, save, live, you know, like Christians. Give first to honor God. Save to be wise, and they live off the rest to be content. Just have good language.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Brian Davis — We use the language of if you get in the stream, the current will pull you, you know.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Brian Davis — So get in the stream of generosity. Get in the stream of serving. Get in the stream of coming to a community group. And like the current is going to pull you further faster.

Rich Birch — That’s good.

Brian Davis — And so, yeah, I think my last thing would just be. Just spend some time developing really clear good sticky language that you can say that does not make you feel weird or weak.

Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Fantastic. This has been great. Where do we want to send people online if we want them to track with you or with the church?

Brian Davis — Yeah, yeah. So our church is on Instagram and and Facebook, all the socials. Our website is plazachurch.org. And you can connect with me on Instagram. My my handle is @bdavis421.

Rich Birch — Love it. Love it. Thanks so much, Brian. Really appreciate being here today, sir. Really appreciate you taking some time to unpack all that for us. Super helpful. Thank you so much.

Brian Davis — Rich, you the man. Thank you so much.